CONDEMN the Israeli Attacks on Gaza and west bank

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Permalink Reply by Sam F on January 21, 2009 at 7:20pm

why its sadly to you that people being more and more pro hammas...why gabby?!!!
i don`t think this group now after what we saw in gaza is the terrorist ...coz we live 24 days will killing kids and womens and civilians with the isrealy millitary and goverment ...i don`t think you mean that hamas is the one who kiiled them by F16 or tanks!!!!do you think that what happend???hope everyone say the truth for once...am a palestinian person and i amd not with killing kids or women from the both sides...no one have the right to...

hope is the only thing we have...but we allways must do our best to make a differance even we sometimes this defferance be small or a litel but we must keep trying ...not only try but doing the best we can no mater what...and what makes that hope alive all the time and keep us going on is our bielives in our selves and saying the truth always and forever no mater how much that truth hurth but in the end its the best thing we do..

Permalink Reply by Gabby Shalala on January 21, 2009 at 8:08pm

Sadly, because it will probably bring more violance and suffering to both sides.

You asked about Hamas, so this is what I think about Hamas:

If you meet someone that is taller than you this that not mean you are not tall - you are judged according to an average.
So after said that, I think Hamas is a terrorist because it shoots rockets for more than 8 years at civilian population. You see my point? Even if you see IDF as "bigger terrorists" it does not cancel what Hamas did all these years.

Regardless of what IDF are told to do by the government (they are told that if they are at risk - shoot), I also think that Hamas don't care about the population in Gaza (tell me what you think here, we may disagree on this) because if they did, after seeing that IDF will shoot if shot at no matter from where, will not shoot rockets and hide among crowds of people. If they cared about peoples houses, they would not booby traped them with bombs.

I wish Hamas will come to the Gazan people (not to me) and say sorry, not for what IDF is doing but for what they did to provoke them, take responsibility and not blame others all the time - they never take credit for failures, just when they succeed in harming Israelies.

Permalink Reply by Sam F on January 21, 2009 at 11:08pm

did you ever lived under siege?did you ever in your life get close to deth more than your clouths close to your body??did you ever stop by soldiers on check points??did you ever find your self naked in the street coz some police men or soldiers wana have fun on you and force you to take ur cloths of??did your kids or broth or sisters wake up with MACHIN GUN IN THIER FACE IN THE MIDELE OF THE NIGHT???did you ever try to live or be living as the same the palestinian people live everyday??did any of the people who close to you and you love them be killed with a cold blood in front of ur eyes???and the list keep going,,,etc
you have no idea what ur goverment or ur leaders put in ur mind...some people live with 2 eye and they think they are not blind,,but its not the eyes who make the people blind or not ...its the heart and the mind who could make someone blind
about hamas in gaza i think all the people in gaza and all the groups suport each other as one body..am sorry to tell you that you are not watch news , you are watching lies...what ever the news you hear or read i am telling you to changs it if you wana have peace with anyone,
and who you are to tell anyone who to be his leader, it was what the palestinian chose to lead them and be their goverment,,it was free election if you remmeber,
some of the hamas leaders have bean killed with all thier famillies and thier kids in this war, so don`t tell me they was hiding,

Permalink Reply by Gabby Shalala on January 21, 2009 at 11:47pm

I know and trust that your pain and suffering is real. I would not want to live such life, and nor do not want you to live this life. How do you think I can help?

No need to start comparing suffering, I could also tell you stories about experiences of me and friends or family of mine. For what? Agrue who suffers more? Let's say you suffer more than I. Now you need to think how to change this right? This is the question to ask.

I said earlier and will say again, my government (and your leaders) made many mistakes throughout the years. And each time such terrible things happen you see solidarity. This is what happening now both in Gaza and in Israel as well - solidarity, everyone is thinking we are all the same and have one faith.

The problem is never with who you select to be your leader, it is about your leader wanting to keep the cycle as it is, not change it to stop the suffering.
So they will keep firing rockets, abduct soldiers and try to send suicide bombers.
When they succeed Israeli population will turn extreme, and demand another operation in Gaza, because they expect the government to protect them, this is why they have an army.

You see where this road is getting us? To the same place over and over again - this is what I meant when saying it makes me sad.

Permalink Reply by Roro Faraj on January 22, 2009 at 1:49am

The IDF acts and behaves like the most barbaric terrorist organization I have ever heard of or seen. I prefer to call the IDF - modern day Nazi's which a huge dose of Spartan warrior mentality. This hatred by the Israeli government that is being programed into the children of Israel is surely the most dispicable thing a government could ever do. And, you say that peace is in the program someplace! Give me a break! As someone said once so beautifully, "You can bomb the world to peaces, but you can't bomb the world into peace!"
Now, I ask you, how can peace ever be achieved with such hatred toward these indigenous people when you soldiers constanlty, daily, routinely ridicule them, torture them, abuse them, in everyday common situations where there is NO threat aimed at the soldiers at all? It has been documented thousands and thousands of times proving that the IDF practices extreme inhumain tactics in dealing with the Palestinian people, I mean women, children, elderly, etc. I am not talking about anyone that is even trying to attack a soldier! I am talking about cruel and barbaric behavior toward these people, my people, every single day since the occupation! Now, damn it, don't you dare try to tell me that you have suffered any where near what these people have. Don't! It is time to be honest and be a good and Godly person and do what is right! YOU seem like an intelligent man. You MUST know that human psychology dictates that when you entrap human beings and deprive them of a means of living in dignity they will rebel. This is only natural as we all have an inate desire to survive. The slave trade was wrong. The holocaust was wrong. This is wrong. I know it is going to be hellaciously difficult for Israelis to make amends and be just and fair to the Palestinians because this will surely mean sacrificing on their part a bit to do the right thing. This will take a big person who want to be a righteous person. This is what must be done. The right decisions must be made. Amends can happen and peace will surely happen. This hatred and selfishnes will be the demise of the world if it continues. Then there will be NO world for any of our children!

Permalink Reply by Gabby Shalala on January 21, 2009 at 8:42pm

Note that what I meant was: It is sad on both ends - sad that both sides, palestinians and israelies, turn to be more extreme. Because it eventually brings more violance.

Permalink Reply by Sam F on January 22, 2009 at 1:30am

what do you think we should do to have peace??is it to live in a prison called west bank with check points on every interance of each city or in the close prison in gaza??to live out of ur goverment WALL which biuld on our land and eats all of palestinian land inside it?? maybe you want us to suffer for a permition from your goverment to viste our families inside that wall and if they do not like you you will be canceled??
i wana ask you one thing and you should tell me why it happend:
when clinton wa the US presidant and he made a peace agremant with our prasidant YASER ARAFAT and you goverment by IHOD BARAK ,why we all have peace that time?am talking about 8 years ago, and i wana rimind you why this bigan after one year of that, it starts when your prime minister SHARON went to the AL AQSA MOUSQ , why he went to one of our most holy places ? just for fun?
don`t tell me your goverment is the most holy goverment, coz what you mean that your goverment all respond,but the truthis ur goverment allways start evrything.
now i will tell you when we can live in peace and harmony , it will happend when isreal start to give, not always take, it allways have the right to take,but giving is not exisit for them
imagine trying to put a bandaidon cancer, it would hide it but the cancer underneath would still grow and fester.

i don`t hate jwish,or christian or any riligion, my wife is christian , am a muslim and i have a lot of jewish friends who i like alot, , am not a person who blieve in what anyone feeds him is truth,i blieve in what my heart tells me is true , if peace really is your dream then it can come true and thats what i blieve in.
don`t beilive any thing you hear till you live it or ur heart bielive it...

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Permalink Reply by Gabby Shalala on January 22, 2009 at 2:10am

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon
"On 28 September 2000, Sharon and an escort of over 1,000 Israeli police officers visited the Temple Mount complex, site of the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque, the holiest place in the world to Jews and the third holiest site in Islam. Sharon declared that the complex would remain under perpetual Israeli control. Palestinian commentators accused Sharon of purposely inflaming emotions with the event to provoke a violent response and obstruct success of delicate ongoing peace talks."
So the answer whould be: Sharon was stupid (or smart) enough to angry the palestinians, and they responded - it helped him become prime minister - this is petty politics and palestinians played to his hands. This was his "proof" to the Israely public that he is right and that having peace with "enemies" is dangerous (not for fun).
His statement was, if I recall "it is a holy place for us Jews as it is for Muslims, why can't I visit there".

I must say I feel the same when visiting Jerusalem - I can walk freely in all quarters, but can't walk in the Muslim quarter - I think this is sad.

My government? Holly? Never said that. But I know some governments tried (Ehud Barak is a good example - I miss those times there was real hope).
This is a good example because it reflects exactly what I said, we have bad lives because we let politicians play with our hearts!

What should you sacrifice for peace? I do not know, what are you willing too?
For now I know we are sacrificing lives of our loved ones, on both sides.

I know, trust and thank you for not hating. As said to Roro before, the wall was also built because of us being afraid of suicide bombers - but you should know that, this is the best solution the government found for protecting its citizens. Check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier

All info is available on the web, so trust me I know what you mean.

Permalink Reply by Roro Faraj on January 22, 2009 at 2:16am

Regarding those walls....bulll!
You can throw a baseball over them if you want to. Come one! Another excuse to practice zionist tactics and that is all it is. When are you ever going to answer any of our questions. How about this one? Why is Israel building settlements inside the Occupied territory which is supposed to be for the Palestinian people?
I will stick to one question at a time. I will hope to get one answer each time. We will see.

Permalink Reply by Gabby Shalala on January 22, 2009 at 2:35am

Sure one question at a time, but please if you accuse me of being wrong like in the wall example (I just took the info from the wiki link, not guessing anything), please bring a valid proof (wikipedia link would do).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement
Which settlements do you mean? Since 1981 this is what happened:

In August 2005, all settlements in the Gaza Strip and four in the northern West Bank (also referred to as Samaria) were forcibly evacuated as part of Israel's unilateral disengagement plan
In 2007 Israel decided to build 300 more Israeli homes in the Har Homa settlement in Shepherd's Field near Bethlehem, a move that has been condemned by both the United States and the European Union
In early 2008, Israel promised to engage in settlement expansion in the West Bank. US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, stated that such expansion should stop and was inconsistent with 'road map' obligations

So in the last 20 years, we are talking about Israel moving out of Gaza (it almost brought Israel to its knees because there where alot of arguments over this) - this was our move to handle Gaza to palestinians, to build their own lives. And in 2007-2008 building some more homes in an already existing place.

Quoting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_palestine_conflict :
"Various mediators and various proposed agreements have shown some degree of openness to Israel retaining some fraction of the settlements which currently exist in the West Bank; this openness is based on a variety of considerations, such as, the desire to find real compromise between Israeli and Palestinian territorial claims, Israel's position that it needs to retain some West Bank land and settlements as a buffer in case of future aggression, and Israel's position that some settlements are legitimate, as they took shape when there was no operative diplomatic arrangement, and thus they did not violate any agreement."

Roro, maybe it is best if we start another discussion for this?
This one is packed - but I feel like we are going in circles ...

Permalink Reply by Davica on January 21, 2009 at 8:47pm

The problem in the Middle East is not the Jews but in fact the Zionists that want complete dominance in the region. Before the Zionist (who base their political beliefs on nationalism and race as did the Nazis) got to the region, Arab and Jew lived side by side in harmony. So what happened? The Zionist ceased control of Palestine and there has been oppression ever since. And if you speak out against the Zionist government of Israel you are labeled Anti Semitic in absence of any logical defense of the Zionist position. All Zionists are Jews but not all Jews are Zionist.

Israel does not want peace or they would not have broke the cease fire by killing 6 Hamas members before the rockets were fired. It takes two sides for a cease fire to work. If Israel wanted peace they would stop expanding their territory and live by international law. But they do not. The Israeli propaganda machine must be seen for what it is. A lie.

Permalink Reply by Gabby Shalala on January 21, 2009 at 8:55pm

Unbelievable, there is always another guy thinks he knows everything, does not bother to read the discussions, and blame only one side, since everything looks so obvious to him.
I wish I had such a clear view.

Have a great life mate, I'm not going through this again.
There are enough sources here and in the wiki if you want more info ...
And you may also be interested in reading this: http://www.ipeace.me/forum/topics/on-being-open-to-criticism-a

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