What is the Right Path to Take to Bring Peace to All in the Near East?

PEACE FOR ALL SHOULD BE THE FIRST LAW OF MANKIND

We have all seen stories, pictures, articles, film clip, and a myriad other types of communication about the current war in Gaza. I would like to list here the various areas of concern if we are going to really achieve long term peace in this ubber volatile region of the world.

1. For the most part, the crux of the problem seems to be religion based.

The major factions involved here are the Muslims and the Jews. We mustn't forget, however, the other groups that exist here as well, Christians, Druze and others. I feel that until all different factions of the main religions can come together in a peaceful way, the violence will continue performing its ebb and flow tap dance much to the chagrin of just about everyone else in the world.

2. Ownership of land.

This is one of the most heated debates that exist. The Right of Return issue for the Palestinians has some very valid and accurate points of contention. They also have growing concerns over the ever expanding borders of Israel which, necessarily, can only be achieved by denying the owners of the land their property deed. The Israelis counter with the fact that their God had promised them this same territory and so they have a divine right to take whatever they want. There may be other issues that I'm missing here, and all help in identifying other parts of this enigma is greatly appreciated.

3. Right to exist.

Israel complains that the Arab nations which surround it want the Israelis to leave and their country to disappear. They contend that as long as these nations refuse to recognize Israel, bloodshed and violence will continue. There are many instances where Arab leaders have made provocative statements that would lend support to this viewpoint.

4. Terrorism vs Defense.

The Israelis contend, with a lot of proof, that there has been an almost constant attack on Israel coming from different directions. They feel they have to be able to defend themselves against these attacks the best way they can. At the same time, Palestinians claim that Israel is constantly attacking them, taking their land to build illegal settlements, and denying Palestinians even the basics of human existence. They say that they basically have no other way to defend themselves. And again, there is a lot of proof of the validity of their complaints.

5. Mutual Communication

Both Arabs and Israelis have often complained that the other side refuses to hear, to compromise and to agree on even the simplest of terms.

6. World Bias

The Palestinians claim that much of the world has already turned their backs on the plight of the Palestinians and refuses to help them. They point to the strong unilateral support of the world's only superpower, the US, for Israel and how that support often takes the form of military might and a complete disregard of international law. Israel counters that they feel alone in a world that seems to refuse their very right to exist. For them, there is really only one country that supports Israel.

7. Crimes against humanity

Both sides continually point to the other side as being guilty of atrocities of the worst kind and should be punished accordingly. Israel points to the constant barrage of rockets into some areas of Israel and that this has caused PTSD in the children there. The Palestinians counter by saying that the only reason many of their children don't have PTSD is because they are already dead.

There may be other major sticking points and please add if you know of some. I would simply ask that for any point added to this discussion going forward a conscientious effort needs to be made to honor the main viewpoint of all sides involved in that point. And please try to be as neutral as possible when presenting them.

I am SINCERELY interested in creating at least ONE path that will lead us from the house of horrors that we watch on TV news, and the house of horrors the people of the Near East live in today. There MUST be at least ONE path that will culminate in peace and harmony for all. I ask all participants to shine a peaceful eye on path and how to make it become a reality.

Thank you very much for your concern. As much as we suffer in our countries when watching the news of atrocities in the Near East, the people there suffer a thousand times more. This must be stopped, NOW!!

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In the early 1970's I was tending bar at a small tavern adjacent to the Greyhound Bus Depot in Santa Cruz, CA. One day a priest came in sat down and ordered a beverage. I struck a conversation with this man who informed me that he had just returned from war ravaged Ireland where even the very young were caught up in making war. At that time I had bought into the popular and widely published belief that the the conflict was between two religions Catholic and Protestant. He was quick to dispel that fallacy pointing out that it was a war between the "have" and the "have-not". He explained that the northern Protestants had both all the wealth (economic) and by extension all the power (political) and that it was a war about justice. Social, economic and political justice. Armed with that new view I had through his eyes I began to have a much more reasonable, rational and realistic view of all war. Instead of accepting the prevailing rhetoric that was quick to label any and all wars as a dispute between religions or ideals ie Communism and Capitalism (Vietnam) or Idealism (the Iraqi invasion and The War On Terror) as G.W.Bush was quick to label them. I now and forever am able to see through that rhetoric and understand the root of all war was and is, simply, injustice. That of course applies to the topic of this discussion. So I ask you to reconsider the intangible explanation that Gaza/Israel is a war of religion and to examine the tangible explanation that it is indeed based on social, economic and political injustice. It has made thinking through these conflicts much easier to understand and much easier to see where-in the the solution lies. The challenge, of course, is in how we can best rectify these injustices as those that "have" are not quick to relinquish much to the "have not". I suggest to all who read this, that this adequately and accurately addresses items 1-7 in "toeg's" post and that the "ONE" path to peace is to address this "INJUSTICE" and "INSTITUTIONALIZE" real "JUSTICE". President OBama has stated as much and has expressed his desire to attempt to do so using the tax code. China itself is in the midst of the single largest re-distribution of wealth and land in the history of mankind!
Peace,
Paul Torraco
Paul,

Thanks for your reply. I can fully appreciate your description of the turmoil that existed in Northern Ireland for decades. The priest is correct in saying that it was at least as much, if not more so a conflict of the haves and the have-nots. And for clarification purposes as well, I'd like to point out that Ireland is a Catholic country. The only reason Northern Ireland ever separated in the first place was due to the import of protestant Scots by England to Northern Ireland. They probably didn't have much in the very beginning, but with the help of England both financially and militarily, they soon became the haves group.

This is also similar to the Near East scenario. For centuries before the end of WWI, the entire Middle East was part of one, and only one country, the Ottoman Empire. The countries that exist there today are a direct result of Winston Churchill's drawing ability on a map of the region after the Ottoman Empire lost.In the region known as Palestine, people of all religions lived side by side with very little violence ever taking place. At that time, Arab Muslims held around 80% of the land and population. The few Arab Jews who lived there weren't really part of the "have-nots" as much as they were simply a small minority of the whole.

Herzl helped change all of that. In the 20s and 30s massive immigration to Palestine by European Jews began to tilt the numbers more and more favorably towards the arriving Jews. Tensions rose and more and more acts of violence occurred across the land. Then, after WWII, hundreds of thousands of Arab Muslims were thrown out of their own home and into refugee camps. They became the "have-no-longer" group.Today, if we look at the distribution of wealth among the various subgroups there, we see a clear case of "haves" and "have-nots." I am merely trying to bring some historical background to the fore. I think that for any solution to work, the history of the area must be taken into consideration. It's crucial that we keep in mind what the area looked like less than 50 years before the UN and the rest of the world gifted the Jews with a country.
I appreciated u my dear friend and really u are one of the very few who know the truth and say it. This a war on the land either those intruders were Jews or Hindu or Buddhists and it will continue until the Palestinians resume their rights to stay in their land. The problem became multifactorial complex because it is between two different nations with two different religions on a peace of land and each of them has his motivations from his religion to defend on the land. We know well and also the Jews know well that this war will continue until the end of the world and both of us know well who will win but I will not say to u. hahahahahaha please smile.
There is the capacity inside each one of us to transcend our Earthly wants and desires for self, and accept and promote the wants and desires of all of us. We all have the same goal. We all want to live happy lives. We all want to love our neighbor. We all want peace, prosperity, joy, happiness, fulfillment, and endless love for ourselves and everyone else around us.

It is the false prophet who pretends the existence of separation, the falsity of different desires, and the distinction of levels of consciousness. We all want the best for ourselves and for others around us. We all want harmony and peace, joyous occasions and happy faces. That doesn't change That is universal.

The false prophet is the one who points to the same and calls it different. The false prophet gives judgment to actions of others and separates them into "things we want" and "things we don't want". Once separated, the false prophet then glorifies the "things we want" and vilifies the 'things we don't want." This is the origin of good and evil. This can only exist if people accept the notion that difference means good or bad.

In this way, the group that has a festival to thank Our Creator for all the beauty She has given us, will be vilified by another group. The other group will say, "They thank the Creator because they have the good things, the good land, the fertile fields, the plentiful lakes, and the great machines. They don't want us to have them. Therefore, there is only one conclusion possible. They must be killed so that we can have what we want - which is what they have!!"

And so Herzl told his Zionist followers and so they acted. And so heard the Jewish immigrant and so he acted. And so heard the Palestinian refugee and so he acted. This can go on for centuries and millennium. There will always exist the false prophet who points to others and says, "They have the good stuff. They have what we want. They won't give it to us so we must take it by force." Once people believe this, they will act in violent ways. The people who suffer that violence will retaliate in violent ways. The first aggressors will see that those "who have the stuff we want" are going to defend it, so they must act even more savagely. Those who receive this violent, savage aggression will retaliate in kind.

For either side to go back to the very beginning, the absolute start of this whole sad story, for either side to acknowledge that the very original premise of both sides was NOT "we want what you have and we will use force to get it" BUT "We all want the best for ourselves and for others around us. We all want harmony and peace, joyous occasions and happy faces," for either side to set aside arms of destruction and death and to pick up shovels and brick and mortar to work hand in hand for the betterment of all would be an act of pure Heavenly Love that would destroy the false prophet. Therefore, the false prophet tells his followers that there is NO HOPE. THEY WILL NEVER STOP HATING US - THEY WANT US ALL DEAD.

I can only hope and pray to my Creator and ask that She give these words to everyone there. That She instill in each heart on all sides the love, joy and desire of peace and harmony and common purpose. It is in my hands to pray for such. It is in Her hands to show them such. And it is in their hands to accept as such.

May peace find the fertile plains of their hearts and minds and grow as plentiful as the molecules and atoms and become part of every breath, every heartbeat, and every thought. So it is, and so it shall be. Love and peace for all. Amen.
Please dear friend explain to me
Who was the false prophet?
Why u refer to the creator by "She"
Ali,

The false prophets are many. Herzl and many of his Zionist followers were false prophets. Certainly the leaders of the Zionist terrorist organizations of Haganah, Irgun, and Leih were false prophets. Those who preach war and violence among the Muslim communities are false prophets. True followers of God preach peace, only peace.

I believe that Our Creator has no gender. It is hard for me to see Our Creator as a man, or as a woman. To me, those are Earthly differences that would have no meaning in Heaven. Most societies are paternalistic in nature. Most societies place idyllic leadership roles as only available to men on Earth, never women. My father used to say, "Aren't the White Supremacist Racists in America going to be surprised when they die, go to Heaven to be judged before God ............................... and find out She's black."

Skin color, gender, and other Earthly attributes don't have any meaning in Heaven, I feel. There's no reason for God to be referred to ONLY in a masculine way. There's no reason for all the sacred books in the US to paint God as being White. If Jesus did exist, he was not White. He did not have the common facial features of a person from London. But ALL of our Bibles, and all of the religious literature sold in the US paint Jesus as almost Albino in color.

Earthly attributes have no real meaning in Heaven, IMHO.
Really I agree with u in all what u say but it is better not to refer to the God by "She". God has no gender as u said but when the God want to refer to Himself in Quran, He always said "He" and this does not mean He is a male but He chose it to refer to Himself and as u know the Quran is the same words of God from His mouth directly to the angel Gabrielle to the prophet Mohamed without one word or one letter changed. He chose "He" to refer to Himself and we respect His choice although we are sure that there is nothing like Him. God said in Quran

(10) The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also) mates. By this means He creates you (in the wombs). There is nothing like Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer. (11) (42-Ash-Shura)

God has no color, no limitation, no start, no end, He is the first (nothing is before Him) and the last (nothing is after Him). Please go to my post to read about Who is the God

http://www.ipeace.me/group/IslamicQuestions/forum/topics/remember-t...
Toeg

its a pleasure to learn from this conversation I am learning from a lot on here from ppl like you who have common sense
that speaks from the heart. I know very much of any thing is greed, being oppressed by the other ones who will only give you less what is pose to be the same with every one . it feels what is really going on with Gaza kinda pro tray's the Northern Ireland concept . for every Muslim there is for every Jew who wants the land. but no buddy will summit or to give up what was taken from them.

I just feel why has any one has took en there foot and split this in half and make it a boarder zone for the U.N.
to handle if it could quash the violence. to me as I see it became not fair of the Israeli government kicking ppl out
for what they wanted land that Palestinians were on. I heard from a man who is Muslim and who I was in a conference with other people talking about the Israel and Palestinian situation the other day ago on skype .

it is most likely what he spoke that was hatred. cause when one Israeli would kill a Palestinian ..it would be a Palestinian killing a Israeli no matter if it is a women who gone in with a jacket strapped with explosives in a Israeli night club and taking many Israelis she could with her. she knew was going to die any way. cause what has been going on. with the idf killing there people..

but I feel what has happen now will just die down until there will be another disturbance like it has been. later on down the road it will be another spark. and it is like when some thing you do real bad u will only get your fingers slapped for it but will you learn." the number of innocents people has died this tragical event.

it is all I can say no matter what has been said on this discussion and I can understand what every one has said
no matter if it is land politics or religion poverty or hatred . I feel just sad that in this century that had not really changed for all the century's that man has been fighting that for once we as a modern society of people that we still become warriors of repeated history's in each era of our lives and the war machinery that we event comes to be more terrible
to kill off people like rats being killed by a new bait that a rat would eat.
Ali,

I mean no disrespect toward the Quran, nor toward you. I believe that in all the major monotheistic religions in the world, God is always referred to in masculine terms and never in feminine or neutral terms. At least, that's the way I understand the translations of the Holy Books are written. And again, I mean no disrespect toward anyone nor any religion.

The reason I use the feminine term when discussing God is precisely for this very fact. As I grew up in a Christian environment, I was always led to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and that God was the Father of Jesus. I always saw Jesus portrayed as being of Northern European features; skin color White, nose less protruding, facial features entirely consistent with most people born in the Northern European countries. In other words, God is White and looks like any modern day Englishman. Likewise, His Son is White and looks like any modern day Englishman.

It was only much later in my schooling that I came to realize that the place where Jesus was born is not in Northern Europe. In fact, the basic features of a person born in the Near East would look very different to every single picture I've ever seen in any Bible in the United States. I personally feel that it is incorrect to falsify His looks in order to "please" the people of the region. Therefore, I will never personally refer to Jesus using the physical features found in every single Bible in the United States.

And so it is with my discussions about God. I see no reason why I cannot use feminine terminology when talking about God. Since He (notice I'm using the conventional term here, which is not correct either) does not have a gender, it would be just as wrong to use masculine terminology as feminine terminology. I realize that in the main monotheistic religions God is referred to only using masculine terminology. Personally, I feel either way should be allowed and I am perfectly willing to stand before God when my day comes and be judged by my usage. However, I do not follow the strict usages in the major books used by these religions, neither the White color of Jesus's skin, nor the strictly masculine references when discussing either one.

Once more, please let me be absolutely clear here, I mean ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT to anyone nor any religion with my choice of descriptives. Hopefully, you can understand my personal beliefs on the subject and can accept me as I am.

Peace maker,

Thanks for the kind words. You are correct that the dilemma in the Near East is very difficult and complicated. There was a two state solution proposed by the UN in the very beginning. And even during the UN sessions there were heated debates on both sides. We mustn't forget that the country of Israel is the only one in the history of mankind where a nation is formed and presented to a people who were living in another part of the world. Obviously, those who had been living there for centuries and had endured the Ottoman Empire and the Byzantine Empire, were upset that after WWII they were going to become part of a nation whose government was full of people from other countries.

At the same time, a serious effort had been made by the UN General Assembly to mitigate the situation and provide for national inclusion for both sides. Clearly this was the best possible solution not only then, but now. Because the two-state process was not accepted, Israel now has more than doubled its size, has taken territory from other nations, and has confined the Palestinians to two open prisons where they are constantly harassed, illegally imprisoned and deprived of their human rights as is mandated by the UN Charter. This has not gone in favor of the Palestinians at all. Here is a map of that first partition. Look at an actual map today, and you can see just how much Israel has grown since 1948.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

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