My name is Raneen, am a Palestinian women, lives in Haifa and work at Zochrot organization as a coordinator of the oral history project in which I collect testimonies from Nakba survivors.
I was supposed to be at this forum from the beginning but I went to Madrid for a Palestinian youth network conference and came few days ago.

The aim of this network is to meet yearly between 100-150 Palestinians youth all over the word (camps. Arab world, Europe and other places) in order to connect between us, to exchange experiences and thoughts and to experience a common dream in being together.

I think that this discussion about the Nakba and the refugees is very important to both side Jewish and Palestinians, and if we continue to close our eyes and avoid this topic as what the police makers is doing now, it will never be peace in the middle east and people from both side will continue to be killed.

I think, To talk deeply about this issues we need more information about the Nakba, specially for the Israelis who never learn about it at their schools.
if we go deeply on this we can understand what is happening today, 60 year after, in Aka (Acr), Jaffa, al-Lyd, what happened in the first and the second Intifada, and why 13 Arab Israeli citizens have been killed during the demonstrations. Why Israel still occupied the west bank and Gaza, why there is so may discrimination laws in this State and why some Knesset members still taking about transferring the Palestinians in Israel to Jordan. Why Palestinians bomb themselves in Israeli buses and send rockets to the South…. Why… why… why…..

Its easy to fined through internet an information about the Nakba, for instance: Badil center: http://www.badil.org/Refugees/facts&figures.htm and also I insert one film about women stories of the Nakba.

Additionally, nowadays, many people are thinking about 1 state resolution rather than 2 state resolution, lets try to discuses these 2 resolution and go deeply on the advantages and disadvantages of each one.


Raneen

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Here's the way I see it. The responsibility for the Warsaw Ghetto was Hitler's. The people fighting back had no other alternative in that situation. The responsibility for the situation of the Palestinians is primarily the leadership of Israel and the leadership of surrounding Arab nations. If political leaders are more interested in keeping their power than solving the problems of their people, they should stop that and do their real job.

I don't presume to know if there was an alternative to the Intifada. Perhaps someone closer to scene can help with that.

But, given that the people want to live in Peace, and the responsible parties are the leaders of Israel and the surrounding countries, they are the ones who have to fix this. To the extent that violence is the only hope for Palestinians it is not surprising that there is violence. To the extent that Isrealis feel violence is the only hope of security, they will be violent.

Lack of hope breeds violence everywhere in the world. There are extremists every where, in every nation, in every tribe. To let extremists define the situation is bad governance, no matter who does it.
Good day All,

This is Motasem Jordanian from Palestinian origin.. I read tall replies about al Nakbah Topics and to tell you the truth we can go hours and hours discussing about the past but no one is thinking about what's gonna be in the future..

As Mr. Michael J state; Leadership played good role in the Nakbah back then.. The only victims I see were the Palestinian civilians who believed what was said eitherthrough radio or through Arab armies.. It was a whole nation betrayal.

However.. we need to find a salutation for Palestinian & Israelian to live to gather in peace, cause till now no one is suffering but the hopeless civilians that can't even find a single light at the night or Madiso for there sick babies..

believe me I've heard stories about ppl from Palestinian authorities selling donated Madison to civilians.. For there own profits!! Do you think this is fair?

And what other choice for such young youth would find but to join this military groups that at the end they don't benefit anyone but them selves.. And frankly I'll state that it's not for their benefit to have peace.

What I believe is we fight corruption and let the people see the truth then to decide what is best for them.

Thank you :)
Michael

I try to stay optimistic, I see now the announcements by Arab countries and by our own leaders, maybe in Gazza and Nabklus people do not feel any difference yet, but I hope we are going the right way

And Motasem, we tried here to talk about the future in context of Nakba, the original goal of this discussion was how to deal with Nakba issue today, should we as Israelis talk about it/discuss it/learn it?
I agree with you, no point in talking about past as we can't change anything
The way I describe it is that we and the Palestinians share the responsibilities equally
We both (people) did our share of mistakes, of refusing just compromises and of killing each other.

There is only one fundamental difference between the two people is that we are in control, so we need to push more for peace (although usually reality is different), the strong side can do more, and therefore also take more responsibility.
Roni

To the question of the Nakba, if I remember correctly there was a decision made in Germany to teach the Holocaust as part of the their required curriculum in public schools. I assume their leaders felt they had enough political cover and it was necessary for their next generation to understand the real history of their world. And they needed to do it to reclaim their position in the world community.

It was a very hard decision for their leaders to make but it was good governance, in my opinion.

Maybe it would be useful to look more closely at the other steps the Germans took to deal with their national tragedy? Auschwiz is a public space. There is a Jewish Museum in Berlin.

To be clear, the Holocaust is not equal to the Nakba. Nazis are not equal to Zionists. But the shape of the events do have some similarities. Segregation in the US had a very similar shape to the Apartheid in South Africa. The struggle for justice in both countries was nasty, more in South Africa than the US. But without wise leaders and an open public discourse it could have been much worse.
Michael

As you are not from here

There is an argument about whether the Nakba should be part of the curriculum in schools, even with the twisted version we study today
Also most of the people in Israel quiver (I hope it is the right word) when the issue is mentioned.
And I personally come to the conclusion that it is important to talk and talk, so people around us also understand it is subject that can be discussed, and should be discussed because we did wrong, and because other people suffered and still suffer

I am not sure what is the solution but first step to is that it is not Taboo
To some extent, I can appreciate the problem. It took us a lot of time, energy with much passion on both sides to make Black studies" or Women's Studies" acceptable and finally mainstream. I do not envy you your task. We agree that to understand what is going on, nothing can be Taboo.

Hopefully our new means of communication - this board being a prime example - will allow us to get this done much faster and easier.

There is a strong current of demonization of Muslims here in the States. In the urban centers, it's not serious, except in parts of the Jewish community. But in our rural areas the passions run deep. Demogogues have used it to maintain their power. Politics all over the world may be different in the details, but the shape is similar.
Dear Mr. Roni..

Thank you for your reply and direction, Nakbah is still affecting all of us.. Once people got fade up from politic leaders they go open Al Nakbah issue.. so it's just a reason for someone's to stay alive (politically I meant).. And I believe it's been used by both parties.

I believe Israelis need to talk about the concept of Nakbah, let's not blame anyone but both parties must understand that today we live together side by side.. If your neighbor who lived beside you let say 50 years didn't show any harm or bad blood. So why shouldn't we treat him mutually.. That simple.

if we reached to understand that all two nations want to live in peace then this hate will be buried, but as said above, it's not for the benefit of politics which they feed from the nations anger. You don't want them to be out of jobs :)

Now ..I agree about Israeli are in control so that means the lead comes from them by a simple demand of making Palestinian civilian have an equal rights same as others. This would make a great differences between both nations.. Letting them have an equal rights
Motasem

Well said. Equal rights is the power of democracy. In America when equal rights were put into law in the 1960's the first step was taken towards a Black man elected President 40 years later. But the road, for us, was long. There was much violence and hatred along the way.There is still much division and hatred in the United States. But we have now taken the next step in resolving our original "sin."

History is not past. It is present in how people today see the world. How they see the world determines the decisions they make. In that sense, history is never past. It is always present. I carry the history of my people through the Holocaust every day. It is only by understanding the Holocaust that I can get over my "natural" hatred of all things German and the "natural" deep distrust of what humans are capable of.

As my father once said to me, "Michael, until you have been hungry, I mean really hungry, you don't understand anything about life or what people can do."

If there were a movement to teach the Nakba in Israel, could there be some movement to teach the Holocaust in Arab lands? Not on the level of government yet, but on the ground. History from the point of view of Jews in Arab lands and history from the point of view of Arabs in Israel.
Michael

Have a look
Thank you very much for the link. It will make my day a little lighter.

Is the following section from wikipedia correct?

Mahameed is not without his critics, not only among Arabs who say that Mahameed should do more to draw attention to the situation of present-day Palestinians, but also representatives of the Israel office of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League (ADL), who have stated without visiting the museum that they consider some of the attitudes expressed on Mahameed's website to be anti-Semitic.

Would it not have made so much more sense for the ADL to support this museum with respect and spread the story of it's existence. To me it seems exactly the kind of reflexive defensiveness that is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Israel supported by the US first began building "security walls" to prevent suicide bombers from entering Jewish areas of this land known as Israel. These suicide missions were and still are wrong. I don't and never will condone such violence but, these walls are a huge injustice and inhumane.
These walls are now used to steal yet more and more land from the Palestinians. Palestinian homes are being demolished simply to build more Jewish settlements inside the Palestinian territories AKA the Westbank. Beautiful highways continue to be built INSIDE the occupied territories of the Westbank (Palestine) to connect these settlements only to be used by the Jews. Isn't it true that if a Palestinian is caught in the car with a Jew on one of these highways they will be put in prison for 7 years? (Just one of many human rights violations.) There are many gorgeous Jewish settlements sprinkled througout the empoverished Palestinian territories for those who are suffering to see but not touch. The Palestinians are treated like dirt.
More and more walls have been constructed simply to oppress the Palestinian people by seperating them from one another, isolating them and making it humanly impossible for them to seek vital employment. Many of them are completely separated from loved ones.
Thousands upon thousands of them even small children are imprisoned for no real crimes at all. There are so many issues here that it is difficult to focus on just one atrocity. You see, I find it so confusing that a people who did suffer the holocaust would even think of using such inhumane methods against another people. It amazes me that this is even happening. How does Israel expect peace when this government approved oppression continues to go on. Many, many innocent Palestinians are suffering and yes, even starving. Look, poverty breeds great anger and hatred. Give the Palestinian people a chance to thrive and survive. They need their own state to co-exist next to Israel in peace and harmony. Many Jews also hate the injustices happening in the Westbank. I hate it. It saddens my heart to see this happening. We must be fair and just. These walls must come down!

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