About this group - iPeace.us2024-03-28T09:48:08Zhttps://ipeace.us/forum/topics/2217368:Topic:132757?groupUrl=middleeastfireside&commentId=2217368%3AComment%3A134087&groupId=2217368%3AGroup%3A132745&feed=yes&xn_auth=noShalom-salaam Roni, Anat, and…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-13:2217368:Comment:2474112008-10-13T11:44:55.564ZHayyim Feldmanhttps://ipeace.us/profile/HayyimFeldman
Shalom-salaam Roni, Anat, and all,<br />
<br />
I finally have a chance to add my thoughts to the "one state vs. two states" discussion, but I see it has just been closed. I'm sorry I wasn't able to participate earlier. But the core of what I think about that debate is the same as my response to Anat's suggestion:<br />
<br />
The inability of Israelis and Palestinians (the two peoples as a whole, and also their respective leaderships) to reach agreement about what a political settlement could or should look like is…
Shalom-salaam Roni, Anat, and all,<br />
<br />
I finally have a chance to add my thoughts to the "one state vs. two states" discussion, but I see it has just been closed. I'm sorry I wasn't able to participate earlier. But the core of what I think about that debate is the same as my response to Anat's suggestion:<br />
<br />
The inability of Israelis and Palestinians (the two peoples as a whole, and also their respective leaderships) to reach agreement about what a political settlement could or should look like is not the cause of the conflict but its result. Similarly, a viable final-status agreement is not the necessary condition for peace, but rather can itself only arise as the outcome of peace-oriented changes "on the ground" and in the consciousness of both peoples.<br />
<br />
In the absence of those more fundamental changes, any formally signed political-diplomatic agreement - whether it calls for two states, or one binational state, or a non-ethnic civil democracy, or a confederation, or anything else you like - will remain a document on paper only, unable to be translated into real peace between peoples. But as soon as the essential transformation of consciousness has proceeded sufficiently - that is, when there is a critical mass of Israelis and Palestinians who understand that they are already not adversaries, but partners and neighbors who care for each other, and who recognize that their own well-being depends on the well-being of their counterparts - then the volatility of all the issues under negotiation will dissolve with relative ease.<br />
<br />
This means that the measure of all our work is not whether it wins people over to a particular political position, but rather the extent to which it it leads people to see in the other a reflection of their own humanity and therefore to become unwilling to participate in or tolerate the mistreatment of the other.<br />
<br />
In that context, a negotiation exercise such as Anat proposes may be useful to explore how strong a hold our suspicions still have on us, how deep is our mutual empathy, and how far-reaching a peace agreement does our current state of consciousness permit us to achieve. But I would urge us not to see it as an attempt to develop a model peace agreement that we would like to see implemented, as the Geneva Initiative set out to do. In fact, I would find it most interesting if we held one such negotiation very soon, and then another one, starting over from scratch, a year later, to see how our ongoing dialog and the deepening of our relationships with each other over that year affect the outcome.<br />
<br />
Blessings,<br />
-Hayyim Dear Roni, up to you :) It wa…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-12:2217368:Comment:2068632008-10-12T12:16:54.396ZVincent Mespoulethttps://ipeace.us/profile/VincentMespoulet
Dear Roni, up to you :) It was just a suggestion. If you don't try, you can't know if it will work or not... But i'm sure that asynchronous discussions are a bad way...
Dear Roni, up to you :) It was just a suggestion. If you don't try, you can't know if it will work or not... But i'm sure that asynchronous discussions are a bad way... Such format is not possible f…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-12:2217368:Comment:2063562008-10-12T11:54:51.036ZRoni Segolyhttps://ipeace.us/profile/RoniSegoly
Such format is not possible for most of the people including myself, I have time in between but cannot put so many people together to discuss at the same time
Such format is not possible for most of the people including myself, I have time in between but cannot put so many people together to discuss at the same time you define a date and an hour…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-12:2217368:Comment:2060682008-10-12T11:45:21.582ZVincent Mespoulethttps://ipeace.us/profile/VincentMespoulet
you define a date and an hour... people who want to join the discussion are connecting in the same time. For this, you need a strong moderator :). Remember I told you that i could give you from time to time a space in my elearning environment for your discussions...
you define a date and an hour... people who want to join the discussion are connecting in the same time. For this, you need a strong moderator :). Remember I told you that i could give you from time to time a space in my elearning environment for your discussions... plz explaintag:ipeace.us,2008-10-11:2217368:Comment:1882822008-10-11T20:11:55.559ZRoni Segolyhttps://ipeace.us/profile/RoniSegoly
plz explain
plz explain try synchronous discussion...tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-11:2217368:Comment:1882652008-10-11T20:10:07.664ZVincent Mespoulethttps://ipeace.us/profile/VincentMespoulet
try synchronous discussion...
try synchronous discussion... I agree, but we have Ipeace f…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-11:2217368:Comment:1872582008-10-11T18:40:11.827ZRoni Segolyhttps://ipeace.us/profile/RoniSegoly
I agree, but we have Ipeace format limitation<br />
I also think a way to improve is to have an active moderator/leader who really controls the discussion, lead it forward, summarize form time to time and make sure the specific important issues are discussed, we should improve here.
I agree, but we have Ipeace format limitation<br />
I also think a way to improve is to have an active moderator/leader who really controls the discussion, lead it forward, summarize form time to time and make sure the specific important issues are discussed, we should improve here. Hi Roni, some suggestions to…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-11:2217368:Comment:1838402008-10-11T12:14:15.004ZVincent Mespoulethttps://ipeace.us/profile/VincentMespoulet
Hi Roni, some suggestions to improve your current discussion and the next discussions...<br />
<br />
1. it's really impossible to have a serious discussion with an asynchronous discussion. I think you have to think about changing your method...<br />
<br />
2. for example you have around 100 messages in your first discussion. Suppose that a guy like me come here just two times by week... Impossible to follow and share, it's a jungle...<br />
<br />
3. Your current moderator for one state/two states is very kind but it's not…
Hi Roni, some suggestions to improve your current discussion and the next discussions...<br />
<br />
1. it's really impossible to have a serious discussion with an asynchronous discussion. I think you have to think about changing your method...<br />
<br />
2. for example you have around 100 messages in your first discussion. Suppose that a guy like me come here just two times by week... Impossible to follow and share, it's a jungle...<br />
<br />
3. Your current moderator for one state/two states is very kind but it's not really a moderation when many messages are out of the topic... Before a discussion, your moderator has to prepare document to discuss about it... Yes we can but not here, we w…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-04:2217368:Comment:1379932008-10-04T22:13:53.041ZRoni Segolyhttps://ipeace.us/profile/RoniSegoly
Yes we can but not here, we want this one to be very focused discussion forum, let's talk offline for other aspects if at all
Yes we can but not here, we want this one to be very focused discussion forum, let's talk offline for other aspects if at all on this: Roni, can we add/dis…tag:ipeace.us,2008-10-04:2217368:Comment:1379162008-10-04T21:44:49.567ZWaelhttps://ipeace.us/profile/Wael
on this: Roni, can we add/discuss this project-creating methodology into the guide lines to be an additional aspect of the group beside focused-discussions?
on this: Roni, can we add/discuss this project-creating methodology into the guide lines to be an additional aspect of the group beside focused-discussions?