Humans in Wolves clothing - how do you envision shared future which doesn't exclude anybody.
About a month ago person name Iman Hijjo joined mepeace.org a social network similar of iPeace. Iman Hijjo, the infant girl who was killed by the Israeli shelling of Gaza on May 7th 2001..
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Childhood
Three small dreams, alone
pass through the night
searching for a house
the moment that the shell
pulverised the child's heart
by Ibrahim Nasrallah
source: http://www.sakakini.org/literature/inasrallah.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------
The avatar posted very hard to watch images of Palestinians victims of the occupation. After some time the user was banned and it was clear it does not respect the community.
The person who run this user was apparently very happy to prove the point that mepeace.org did not tolerate his views, will he do the same in iPeace?
As some of the member here may be offended from the text I copied from other site, please avoid any Retaliation. I copied it to show the different views of people on the activity in peace oriented social network and allow us to focus of how we transcend and include this kind of aggressive attack who wish to destroy instead of bringing their perspectives and working with us to create a future that include us all. because the one who did this and wrote the post bellow cannot be excluded and is part of our future.
The last time I checked The original post Wolves in sheep clothing removed from its place.So we should not relate this text that I quoted to any real person just as example of expression of resistance.
I ask no personal attacks on the one who wrote this or me or any one who comment here, no images. just observe are you seeing Humans in Wolves clothing or Wolves in sheep clothing?
please tell me how do you envision shared future which doesn't exclude anybody?
Thank you
John: I am puzzled by the 'humans in wolves' clothing' reference, and would like to ask Neri just exactly who he was thinking of when he wrote it.
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John,
In some sense all what I am saying is in the name.
The original post name "Wolves in sheep clothing" which is a well known and use human metaphor we all share. (and I will not be surprised to find that the core of this metaphor is Arab). This metaphor link to the images of evil creatures who are hiding under sheep skin. this is a very strong claim that there are people who are not honest to be a peaceful sheep and the actually wolves who seek prey.
In the title I selected here "Humans in Wolves clothing" I am suggesting to use the metaphor one step further and recognize that these people who we think of as wolves are human under it so we can work with them to create our mutual future.
I wish the best and seek ways to work with people who are sure I am a wolves and I see that they are humans as me. I forgive them not to recognize that and love them as my brothers.
for them it will continue to be a "Wolves in sheep clothing" no matter what I say or do since they are "Humans in Wolves clothing" who do not recognize my human core same bit of heart same metaphors.
It is sad, but full of hope since are all "in clothing" of our dogma and self righteousness fail to recognize somethings in us. we are all imperfect humans who need to solve this fucking hard puzzle that kills in us. Any true honest human will tell you that any solution for human problem must includes everybody with no exceptions in any body's clothing can solve.
I have no doubt in my mind that we are all "Humans in SOMETHING clothing" and as Humans we will think and act for our share basic identity,
This is why I choose this title.
Thank you for asking.
========================================================
original post (that was deleted) which give us a glimpse about how some people see the Israeli Palestinian conflict :
------------------------
Wolves in sheep clothing
Iman Hijjo, murdered in her mother's arms @ 4 months old
Wolves in sheep clothing
Yesterday, I joined the very ominous sinister site “mepeace” using the name Iman (above photo); I posted one link to the film “The Iron Wall” and only 10 pictures!!
Within less than 15 hours I was totally banned, my IP was blocked, and I can’t access the site even to read!
Now, to those blood-soaked criminals who come frothing with fake words of peace but get incensed and infuriated when they hear the word justice, I would say:
Masters of lies and dishonesty
I would like to see you talking to the Nazis who abused you without asking them to acknowledge their crimes
I would like to see how you respond to those who deny the holocaust
I would like to see you turning a blind eye to Hitler’s crimes and moving forward without asking for justice or compensation
Masters of terror and deceit
How do you want us to move on with out YOU acknowledging your crimes of theft, ethnic cleansing and genocide, yet you demand that the whole world acknowledges the crimes of Hitler against you?
Masters of arrogance and conceit
How could you deny our Catastrophe and your responsibility for it, yet insist and make sure that anyone who even doubts (let alone denies) the holocaust or the number six millions has to pay severely by imprisonment and loss of livelihood and even life?
Masters of mischief and evil doing
God had sent you many warnings; that you do not transgress or do mischief in the land, but your arrogance, self interest, greed and supremacy are blinding you from seeing the evil you are doing
Instead of acknowledging your crimes and establishing justice, you are still in a state of total denial, carried away with more crimes, more lies, and suppression of truth
Instead of repentance and accepting that you have wronged us, you try to silence our faint voices causing more deception, concealing the truth and sinking deeply in the abyss of immorality and wickedness
Your Jewishness, your self interest, your love of material gains and you drunkenness by power is what you worship now not the God of goodness, peace and justice
My warning to you now is the same warning given to your ancestors by many prophets and prophetic voices
You are descending deeper in the hole that you dug for yourselves by your evil deeds, your denial of truth, and by your inability to ask for forgiveness
The crimes that you have committed against us are indeed painful and agonizing, but it’s only done against our physical bodies, our souls are out of your reach and forever intact; however, it’s your own souls that you are disfiguring and destroying, if only you knew
Unfortunate, pitiable and deceived souls
You have lost your humanity and killed your own souls if only you could see
Unless and until you acknowledge your crimes and correct the wrongs you have committed there will be a dark bleak and desolate future awaiting for you
And this is a promise
Mischief makers
They cry peace, but what they mean is war; they scream freedom but what they mean is enslavement; they shout democracy but what they mean is democracy for their own kind.
The Quran describes such people whose words contradict their deeds:
“And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only. Are not they indeed the mischief-makers? But they perceive not. (2:11-12)”
WARNING
“And We gave (Clear) Warning to the Children of Israel in the Scripture, that twice would they do mischief on the earth and will become tyrants and behave insolently with extreme arrogance.” (17:4)
“When the first of the warnings came to pass, We sent against you Our servants of mighty prowess: They entered the very inmost parts of your homes; and it was a warning (completely) fulfilled.” (17:5)
“Afterwards, we will give you a turn over them, and will grant you an increase of wealth and children; we will give you the upper hand.” (17:6)
“If you do good, it will be for your own benefit, but if you do evil, it will be against your souls. When the prophecy of your second transgression will come to pass, sadness will cover your faces. They (your enemies) will enter the mosque as they did the first time, they will wipe out all the gains you had accomplished.” (17:7)
“It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if you revert to transgression, we will counter with retribution. We have designated hell as a final abode for those who conceal the truth.” (17:8)
The ONLY thing that could save you -arrogant zionists- from a bleak and painful future is to reverse your evil ways of oppression, arrogance and greed, and act like civilized human beings, with justice and compassion
But mischief makers perceive not
------------------
NOTE: the post was real, but please do not try to inform us about its origin. Please look into the question of what unite us all.
----------------------------------------------
Childhood
Three small dreams, alone
pass through the night
searching for a house
the moment that the shell
pulverised the child's heart
by Ibrahim Nasrallah
source: http://www.sakakini.org/literature/inasrallah.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------
The avatar posted very hard to watch images of Palestinians victims of the occupation. After some time the user was banned and it was clear it does not respect the community.
The person who run this user was apparently very happy to prove the point that mepeace.org did not tolerate his views, will he do the same in iPeace?
As some of the member here may be offended from the text I copied from other site, please avoid any Retaliation. I copied it to show the different views of people on the activity in peace oriented social network and allow us to focus of how we transcend and include this kind of aggressive attack who wish to destroy instead of bringing their perspectives and working with us to create a future that include us all. because the one who did this and wrote the post bellow cannot be excluded and is part of our future.
The last time I checked The original post Wolves in sheep clothing removed from its place.So we should not relate this text that I quoted to any real person just as example of expression of resistance.
I ask no personal attacks on the one who wrote this or me or any one who comment here, no images. just observe are you seeing Humans in Wolves clothing or Wolves in sheep clothing?
please tell me how do you envision shared future which doesn't exclude anybody?
Thank you
John: I am puzzled by the 'humans in wolves' clothing' reference, and would like to ask Neri just exactly who he was thinking of when he wrote it.
==
John,
In some sense all what I am saying is in the name.
The original post name "Wolves in sheep clothing" which is a well known and use human metaphor we all share. (and I will not be surprised to find that the core of this metaphor is Arab). This metaphor link to the images of evil creatures who are hiding under sheep skin. this is a very strong claim that there are people who are not honest to be a peaceful sheep and the actually wolves who seek prey.
In the title I selected here "Humans in Wolves clothing" I am suggesting to use the metaphor one step further and recognize that these people who we think of as wolves are human under it so we can work with them to create our mutual future.
I wish the best and seek ways to work with people who are sure I am a wolves and I see that they are humans as me. I forgive them not to recognize that and love them as my brothers.
for them it will continue to be a "Wolves in sheep clothing" no matter what I say or do since they are "Humans in Wolves clothing" who do not recognize my human core same bit of heart same metaphors.
It is sad, but full of hope since are all "in clothing" of our dogma and self righteousness fail to recognize somethings in us. we are all imperfect humans who need to solve this fucking hard puzzle that kills in us. Any true honest human will tell you that any solution for human problem must includes everybody with no exceptions in any body's clothing can solve.
I have no doubt in my mind that we are all "Humans in SOMETHING clothing" and as Humans we will think and act for our share basic identity,
This is why I choose this title.
Thank you for asking.
========================================================
original post (that was deleted) which give us a glimpse about how some people see the Israeli Palestinian conflict :
------------------------
Wolves in sheep clothing
Iman Hijjo, murdered in her mother's arms @ 4 months old
Wolves in sheep clothing
Yesterday, I joined the very ominous sinister site “mepeace” using the name Iman (above photo); I posted one link to the film “The Iron Wall” and only 10 pictures!!
Within less than 15 hours I was totally banned, my IP was blocked, and I can’t access the site even to read!
Now, to those blood-soaked criminals who come frothing with fake words of peace but get incensed and infuriated when they hear the word justice, I would say:
Masters of lies and dishonesty
I would like to see you talking to the Nazis who abused you without asking them to acknowledge their crimes
I would like to see how you respond to those who deny the holocaust
I would like to see you turning a blind eye to Hitler’s crimes and moving forward without asking for justice or compensation
Masters of terror and deceit
How do you want us to move on with out YOU acknowledging your crimes of theft, ethnic cleansing and genocide, yet you demand that the whole world acknowledges the crimes of Hitler against you?
Masters of arrogance and conceit
How could you deny our Catastrophe and your responsibility for it, yet insist and make sure that anyone who even doubts (let alone denies) the holocaust or the number six millions has to pay severely by imprisonment and loss of livelihood and even life?
Masters of mischief and evil doing
God had sent you many warnings; that you do not transgress or do mischief in the land, but your arrogance, self interest, greed and supremacy are blinding you from seeing the evil you are doing
Instead of acknowledging your crimes and establishing justice, you are still in a state of total denial, carried away with more crimes, more lies, and suppression of truth
Instead of repentance and accepting that you have wronged us, you try to silence our faint voices causing more deception, concealing the truth and sinking deeply in the abyss of immorality and wickedness
Your Jewishness, your self interest, your love of material gains and you drunkenness by power is what you worship now not the God of goodness, peace and justice
My warning to you now is the same warning given to your ancestors by many prophets and prophetic voices
You are descending deeper in the hole that you dug for yourselves by your evil deeds, your denial of truth, and by your inability to ask for forgiveness
The crimes that you have committed against us are indeed painful and agonizing, but it’s only done against our physical bodies, our souls are out of your reach and forever intact; however, it’s your own souls that you are disfiguring and destroying, if only you knew
Unfortunate, pitiable and deceived souls
You have lost your humanity and killed your own souls if only you could see
Unless and until you acknowledge your crimes and correct the wrongs you have committed there will be a dark bleak and desolate future awaiting for you
And this is a promise
Mischief makers
They cry peace, but what they mean is war; they scream freedom but what they mean is enslavement; they shout democracy but what they mean is democracy for their own kind.
The Quran describes such people whose words contradict their deeds:
“And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only. Are not they indeed the mischief-makers? But they perceive not. (2:11-12)”
WARNING
“And We gave (Clear) Warning to the Children of Israel in the Scripture, that twice would they do mischief on the earth and will become tyrants and behave insolently with extreme arrogance.” (17:4)
“When the first of the warnings came to pass, We sent against you Our servants of mighty prowess: They entered the very inmost parts of your homes; and it was a warning (completely) fulfilled.” (17:5)
“Afterwards, we will give you a turn over them, and will grant you an increase of wealth and children; we will give you the upper hand.” (17:6)
“If you do good, it will be for your own benefit, but if you do evil, it will be against your souls. When the prophecy of your second transgression will come to pass, sadness will cover your faces. They (your enemies) will enter the mosque as they did the first time, they will wipe out all the gains you had accomplished.” (17:7)
“It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if you revert to transgression, we will counter with retribution. We have designated hell as a final abode for those who conceal the truth.” (17:8)
The ONLY thing that could save you -arrogant zionists- from a bleak and painful future is to reverse your evil ways of oppression, arrogance and greed, and act like civilized human beings, with justice and compassion
But mischief makers perceive not
------------------
NOTE: the post was real, but please do not try to inform us about its origin. Please look into the question of what unite us all.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on
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Yes,
Is it true that the light shine brighter in darkness, or is it us who are able to see threads of light only in dark condition?
Do we need this dark messages to find our inner light source? what can we provide to the people who call us from the dark as this person?
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Well, as you know most of us are living in the past, fighting wars that started by their grand parents and assume that the enemy is expression of evil ...
When you introduce them to ideas of 'release the drama and live in the moment' you get the drama of "how dare you suggest we will not have "justice" of eye to eye here" or such reactions, people think that when you propose different perspective you are attacking their perspective instead of offering them another point of view for getting out of this victimized-endless pain loop that they are locked in wrongly thinking that only Justice can cure realty where we need to build the capacity for a just resolution.
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Geting in confrontation with people you seek to help and support and they come at you and attack you as you are "Wolf in sheep clothing".
one of the option is go away, and say - they are not peace makers that bring blame and hate. But this option is serenader to their view of you as a Wolf.
How can we help them, who can help us, the Israelis to connect and support their needs when we think that as Israelis we are committed to that but we as Israelis are rejected in a strong emotion reaction. every word we use twisted around to show we are not honest as we do not accept the whole package of belief they have.
We have many Israeli sympathizers who are too Humans in Wolves clothing but with most of them we can find a path for conversation, but this kind of aggression of people from the other side we need some moderation of people they trust.
should we just go away?
should we ask for more moderate palestinians to create the connection?
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Dear Rúach,
it is a voice we need to hear as there is so many palestinians in this condition, at its peek it seem to be a strong cry from pain seeking heavenly redemption.
We need to find solution such any child will not be at risk to be as Iman Hijjo or the person who wrote this text. we need to take the courage to change our relationships and form a wider bond that can protect and include this children.
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Permalink Reply by Hayyim Feldman on
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Neri, your opening post reminds of the saying that we are not human beings who occasionally have spiritual experiences; rather, we are spiritual beings having a human experience. That is the "basic identity" you rightly say we share.
You ask, "how we transcend and include this kind of aggressive attack who wish to destroy"
I think that if we want to transcend and include, one requirement is not to ascribe a "wish to destroy" to the author as their sole, and irredeemable, motive. He or she has also clearly expressed a wish to connect. A wish to destroy is always an overlay in that way, precisely because the would-be destroyer is human, and therefore shares in the same basic spiritual identity as you and I, as you recognize.
The wish to destroy may serve as a shield to obscure the wish to connect from consciousness. But that is not because the person is an inhuman, soulless monster; it is because their experiences have persuaded them that the wish to connect is no longer believable, and that by pursuing it they will only be further rejected and humiliated as in the past.
However, the person whose writing you shared with us here expresses that desire more or less openly, in however hurtful and emotionally defended a form. So here, especially, there is no need to "go away, and say - they are not peace makers that bring blame and hate," which, as I think you meant to say, would only reconfirm their perception of you as a Wolf.
It seems to me that what they wrote leaves plenty of space to reach out and at least try to make human contact, heart to heart. No guarantee of success, of course, and no duty to do so at every single opportunity. But it is possible, and we are up to it, or at least up to learning how over time, clumsily if necessary. I think Ruach's comments point toward one way to begin such a conversation, by setting the politics aside at first in order to connect emotionally, with real compassion.
You may have seen, I recently tried in my own way to reach out to another mepeace member who often spoke in similarly condemning and absolutist terms. It began well, I thought, with a couple rounds of better than cordial exchange - we even both expressed our mutual brotherly/sisterly love! And then, alas, she too was banned (not unreasonably, under the broader circumstances) and all her contributions disappeared from the site. I'm sorry to lose such a good opportunity to practice, but I'm sure there will be many more. For all of us.
To build on something I wrote there, in this endeavor even failure is success, because through it we develop the communication skills (especially listening to the human beneath the words, and speaking from the heart) and the deeper strengths of character that we need in order to do the real, healing work of peacemaking.
Blessings,
-Hayyim
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Hayyim,
I wish all of us learn from your wisdom and patience as I think that the problems is how to channel different "values" that exist between us.
the "values" are thing that are important to us, and we can find some of these "values" in conflict.
for the person who wrote this texts the Value of the "Palestinian Clan" respect and dignity is very high, her reading of the holy Quaran is inline of this text. this is a dominant value that must be respected when we develop our Israeli-Palestinian relationship.
but the value of "being practical and future driven" is a different value that people have, when when this come to find resolution it understand that reality have some constrains and G-D intervention can only be expected through us, the children of G-D.
for people how has the dominant the 1st "Value" tend to write this kind of hate text, and we have Jews with the same kind of behavior but when the 2nd "value" join the discussion the 1st "value" find him too moderate and think that he seek to "buy" the dignity of the Palestinian.
In this post I tried to bring the voice that we find so hard to communicate with, in some other place on the Internet I try to talk with the writer directly, but she answer me with poems and with no direct dialog.
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Dear Eva,
NOTE: the post was real, but please do not try to inform us about its origin and look into the question of what unite us all.
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Dear Mary
NOTE: the post was real, but please do not try to inform us about its origin and look into the question of what unite us all.
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Shalom-salaam Mary,
I consider every moment of my life as an opportunity to practice being more loving, more responsible, more human. Yes, I consider this current digital encounter with you an opportunity to practice. To practice what? Just what you said: treating you as a human being - that is, as a reflection of the same Divine One that I and each of us embodies, bound up in that Unity with my own soul.
It was not my intention to use the person I refered to as a "bad example," but rather the opposite: I meant to say from my own experience that it is always possibile to reach out humanely to one another no matter how sharply our views may differ, that no one is beyond the pale. I'm sorry if that was not clear.
When you say to me "Yes, you ban us," do you really mean me personally? If so, whatever gave you that idea?? The moderation team was always a moderation team "in process" only, and never yet reached agreement with mepeace leadership (specifically, with Eyal) on how the team should function. Neither I nor the moderation team ever had the power to ban anyone. We never as a group even recommended that anyone be banned. Some of us from time to time did make such recommendations individually, as any mepeace member could do. I did that once, before I was on the team, and the person was banned; that was John Cudini. Do you remember him? I doubt we could find anyone on mepeace further from your views than he.
The person I spoke of in my earlier post here, whose banning I said was not unreasonable, showed similar views and conduct to John - in fact, some people thought she actually was John, in "drag". She was banned just as I was asking her to give some thought to what ideal outcome she wanted not only for Israelis (which she had already written) but for Palestinians as well. A small thing, I know, and one that should come easily to anyone - but it did not come easily to her, and I had hoped to encourage her in that direction. I don't know why you would call that "hasbara." Do you think it was a bad thing for me to do?
I agree with you, and have stated so publicly to Eyal on mepeace, that I think bannings should be accompanied by explanations - not just to the person banned, in advance, but publicly to the whole community there.
I would especially like to have seen Eyal's reasoning for banning you, because I would have liked to go to bat for you. Sometimes, when you write things like what you just wrote here about me, you don't make that easy. I don't know if you truly meant to accuse me of banning people, refusing to explain, pro-zionist bias, etc., but that's how it sounds to me. As I've described here, the first two are untrue, and I think the second is unfair. Given our affection for each other, I feel personally hurt and disappointed by it.
Why do you say I demand peace before justice, that I am deaf to Palestinians' need for justice? I know you have discussed the relationship between peace and justice with others on mepeace, but you and I have not had that chance yet. I hope we will. I also hope you'll agree that it's better to do so when and where we can give it its due as a topic worthy of our focused attention, rather than trying to address it in the current context. Maybe, if people don't think it's too abstract, it could be one of the topics this iPeace group takes up?
So, with all this, what is "the falseness [I] have here exhibited"? I know I am capable of speaking in a way that is false to my own better self. But if I went astray in my earlier post, I'm afraid I still don't see it.
The last thing I want to respond to is where you wrote:
"Yes, I am Similarly Condemning, but it's hard to not be when we know and see what is happening even now to innocent people just for the crime of being Palestinian and not Jewish. "
Yes, whether one sees the grievous harm to innocent Palestinians, or to innocent Jews, or to both, I completely agree, it is very hard not to be "similarly condemn
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Dear Mary and Eva
for them it will continue to be a "Wolves in sheep clothing" no matter what I say or do since they are "Humans in Wolves clothing" who do not recognize my human core same bit of heart same metaphors.
It is sad, but full of hope since are all "in clothing" of our dogma and self righteousness fail to recognize somethings in us. we are all imperfect humans who need to solve this fucking hard puzzle that kills in us. Any true honest human will tell you that any solution for human problem must includes everybody with no exceptions in any body's clothing can solve.
I have no doubt in my mind that we are all "Humans in SOMETHING clothing" and as Humans we will think and act for our share basic identity,
This is why I choose this title.
Thank you for asking.
NOTE: the post was real, but please do not try to inform us about its origin and look into the question of what unite us all.
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Dear friends,
some time we need to thank people who help us to see this patterns of "Wolves in sheep clothing" as Eva and Mary do.
I open this discussion not to attack a person, I asked not to relate it to the "source" of the quote rather look at the phenomena and the inner existence of all of us as humans. I think that our task as activists is not to make Eva, Mary see that they do not see Humanity in others; our task is to recognize that any peace must have the condition to contain this anger and address it so the rage and hate will not be so aggressive. some of it is making sure that the killing and the occupation will halt for ever, and this we all have in common, our differences is in the "how".
NOTE: the post was real, but please do not try to inform us about its origin. Please look into the question of what unite us all.
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