forgivenessTo forgive helps you to forget

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yeah but in many times i feel strange in this big world i don't said i'm perfect because i'm humain being i did mastakes ,but really i don't know how to hate people even they heart me depely ,i get hurted from my best friends yhe person who i love ,but i try to forgive them and find exuses
A story I recently read on forgivness that was powerfull to me.
Saul and Abram were sitting on a bench. Saul, Have you forgiven the Nazis for what they have done to you. FORGIVE!!! they murdered my family placed me in a death camp starved children to death,. NO NO I will never forgive them.
Then the Nazis, still have you in there camp Saul. You are still there prisoner. You can leave anytime. let them go Give them to God,.Free yourself.

ITs not about them or telling them that what they did is OK. murder rape molestation are not OK forgiveness is not about them its about freedom from them. Freedom to go on and heal.
IN time when a person has had time for greif and anger. Eventually WE must forgive or we become there vicitms over and over again in our minds. ALL in Gods time.

I must tell myself that people who dont love me should not be allowed to live in my head for free. KICK THE BUMS OUT>
There not even paying rent.
but you don't thinkd it's easy to said but difficult to do
With the help of people with arms to hug me. With the help of a Higher power that loves Me. It may be diffacult but not impossible. I must suround myself with huggable people .
IT for me is a WE thing. Not a me thing.
This helps me.
you know realy i'm glad to know that you suport me and you understand me even we know each other few hours ago but really i feel relaxed when i find people who understand me and try to advice me,Ruach isn't this world bizar you who i just know you you suport and advice me and people who sopose to be the most nearest people to my heart denied me
Shalom-salaam Assmae and all,

Assmae, I haven't "met" you before and I don't know your situation, but when I saw the title of this discussion on my iPeace homepage, I was drawn to come here (and pleased to see my good friend Ruach!).

In case the advice given by Ruach and by Rich seem to contradict each other, I want to affirm them both and explain how they are really deeply compatible. (If this turns out to be too long, please forgive me!)

Rich says:
"It's not about them or telling them that what they did is OK. murder rape molestation are not OK forgiveness is not about them its about freedom from them. Freedom to go on and heal. .... I must tell myself that people who dont love me should not be allowed to live in my head for free. KICK THE BUMS OUT!"

Ruach says:
You cannot truly forgive someone and then allow then to hurt you again. .... Forgiveness is the end of a journey which first starts with healing. Often to heal, we must first remove ourselves from unhealthy relationships for a while.... if [people you love] hurt you repeatedly, then you must look at your boundaries and your self respect.

Rich says you must first forgive in order to "go on and heal"; Ruach says healing comes first and only afterward can you forgive.

Rich says you can and must forgive even unrepentant Nazi murderers; Ruach says you cannot forgive someone who continues to hurt you. (Note: Ruach is not saying you *should* not do so, but that you *cannot*. What may sound like forgiving is really only denying.)

So how can I say the two are compatible? The trick is that if you understand how they are using the word "forgiveness" differently, then you can see that what they are advising you to actually DO is the same; they are just using different words for it.

When Ruach says to "look at your boundaries," and when Rich says to "kick the bums out" of your head, they are in agreement that the first thing you must do is to distance yourself from the people who are hurting you so that you do not continue to get hurt by them. That requires both physical distance in time and space (per Ruach) and mental/emotional distance in your own heart and mind (per Rich). In order to achieve that distance, you have to *let go* of the relationship despite your current attachment to the person.

Rich calls that letting go "forgiveness"; Ruach does not. But they agree that only after you have let go can you then, over time, heal from the hurt.

(I want to add that this healing comes by way of a period of grief. You must grieve the loss of this person, of your relationship with them, in order to heal. But that grief can only come after you have firmly let go; otherwise, every time you feel sad and miss them, you will want to run back to be hurt again. Another way to see this: You are already grieving the relationship because you know you have already lost it - as a real, loving and supportive relationship - but your grief can't heal your broken heart as long as you keep coming back for it to get battered some more.)

For Ruach, "forgiveness" is something you can do only after you have healed. She has not said what that something is, and I cannot speak for her. But I will tell you that I agree with her; I do not think "letting go" is the same as forgiving. I am a Jew, and my understanding of such things come mostly from reflecting on my own experience in the light of Jewish spiritual teachings.

In our tradition, we (humans) are actually *forbidden* to forgive someone who has not repented of the harm they have caused us. Yet we are strongly encouraged (though not obligated) to forgive someone who has come to us in remorse, demonstrating a clear commitment to change their future behavior (for example, by getting the support they need in order to make that change), and seeking our forgiveness. Obviously, when we forgive someone who has done that, we are not going to let go of the relationship. So what is the forgiveness we are being asked for?

In Hebrew, there are three different words referring to three different levels of forgiveness. From the simplest, most external level to the most complete, inward level, these are:
1) s'lichah is when the offender is relieved of any punishment for their offense;
2) m'chilah is when the injured person no longer holds a grudge that colors their feelings and expectations about the former offender; and
3) kapparah is when all the damage caused by the original offense - to the injured person, to the relationship, and to the offender - has been undone.
In English, one might translate these as pardon, forgiveness, and atonement - but they are all different levels of forgiveness.

Since the third of these levels, kapparah, can only be granted by G!d (as on Yom Kippur, the "Day of Atonement"), the forgiveness that is in our hands to offer is to restore our faith in the one who has hurt us, and to no longer hold our past grievance against them.

So why does this disagreement exist about which act of the heart (letting go of the relationship, or restoring it) should be called forgiveness? There may be more than one reason, but here is one that seems important to me: The first necessary step when one is being repeatedly hurt - that is, letting go of the damaging relationship - also requires an act of the second kind, letting go of a certain grudge in order to restore a relationship. But that first relationship that must be restored is not with the one who is hurting you; it is with yourself!

I learned this from one of my teachers, Rabbi Gedaliah Fleer, that in order to even begin the process of forgiving another person, one must first forgive oneself for having been vulnerable. When, as Rich describes, you cannot silence the voice in your head of pain and shame and rage against the one who has hurt you, it is no accident that you, yourself are the only one being harmed by that accusing voice. That shame is actually directed against yourself, for the sin of having allowed yourself to be hurt so badly.

Your relationship with that destructive inner voice is the first one you need to get some distance from. Until you do that, part of what draws you back and back to the one who is hurting you is your impossible demand of yourself to "prove" that you can stop being emotionally vulnerable. Let go of that unjustified grudge against yourself, forgive yourself for being vulnerable (human), and you will then be able also to let go of your relationship with the one who continues to hurt you, so that you can begin to heal. Later perhaps they will earn your forgiveness, as well - but if not, at least you will be free, as Rich says, to grieve and heal.

hi Hayyim Feldman,
i really enjoyed reading your coments and konw that you precise part of your time to wriite it to me even you don't know me you or rich and rauch ,thank you lot.
i want present my self to you:My name is asmae from morroco i'm 19 .i study network system i'm muslim and proud for being muslim and our relegion teach us to respect all the relgious.
My biggest problem is i get hurted from the most nearest people to my heart and each time i forgive use i feel that in my heart their isn't place for hate but in the same time i can't forget that in the reality i get hurted .if you ask me why you forgive them even they hurt you several time i will tell you i don't know .
really when i think about this suject i feel confused and i don't know what to do,really i need help and advice to find solution .
my best wishes to you
thank you
hi rauch
i read your letter and it's touch me lot in so many ways i saw in you my self really ,i understand you because me too i have the same problém with my father my relation with him it's like east and west ,fannely i found a person who live the same story as me you rauch,i will tell you my story :from my childhood rauch and my father isn't part of my life because he works in other country i see him 2 times in week even in those days i don't feel his love afowrd me i feel like he is a strang person from me my relationship with him it's so bad in so many times i felt like he doesn't love me me too my father abiouse me verbely more than physicaly in so many times i fell like i hate him and that's he doesn't love me ,that's puch me to feel guilty because in the first place he is my father and i must love him but rauch really i don't hate him it's just inside my soul a deep anger .
Rauch you understand what i feel ,because my friends can't understand this because they don't live the same experience for that they had the habit to see their fathers each time they want they feel security and love,me i never fel those feelings from my father never in so many times i feel so jalous from my young sister because her relation with my father it's so good i feel that he love her more than me it's reality rauch i died each day those felings kill me each moment,and i don't know what to do.
my best wishes to you dear ruach.
hello ruach
yhanks for being so understanding ,you know even you are 43 and me 19 but i feel that we will be friends because the age doesn't matter in relationships.
i thank god that finally i found a person who unerstand me ans understand what i'm talking about ,your wards touch me so deeply and i apreciat the time that you give it to me you precise a part of your time to writte to me those touchable sentences .
i really need to find peace i will try with god helps in first place and your help of course.
thanks million time Ruach
with my love
your frien Asmae


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