In response to an Israeli who claims to be a Peace Activist

Dear Noa,

YOU said. "I have seen the peace process rise and fall..."
I say, let's be honest about this, there has never once been an honest attempt by Israel for a peace process but instead there has been ever increasing human rights violations poured down on the Palestinian people disguised as "protecting Israel against the enemy."

YOU said, "That enemy is fanaticism ... All have fallen to this destructive, horrible fanaticism at some point in their histories and the results have been devastating."
Yes, I say that fanaticism is a horrific extreme in any form however, the oppressed, deprived, abused, victims of Palestine are far from fanatics. They are simply fighting for their right to survive and hope to one day thrive again in their own land. This is land where their ancestors have lived and farmed for centuries. I have been in Palestine! I lived in Palestine! My husband is Palestinian. I expereinced the abusive behavior by the IFD myself alongside my Palestinian family while I was there. I KNOW what it feels like to be treated like a cockroach by an elite armed force by a FANATICAL government that has no intention of peace with the Palestinian people but instead a master plan to irradicate them from existence so they can take over the entire region for more incoming immigrants Jews from around the world.

YOU said, "I have often spoken out against fanaticism in my country, ........ I see it’s black eyes and spine-chilling smile, I see blood on its hands and I know one of its many names: Hamas."
For your information, Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people in Gaza to govern and lead them as much as could be done within the confines of Israel's apartheid walls. You see, Gaza, is nothing more than a ghetto, a walled in open air prison. Life in your home by the Sea could never compare to life under occupaiton. Israel has always been in control of this situation allowing and disallowing food, medicine, water, electricity, and other essential things needed for a common life whenever it pleased. Israel has pushed and tortured and punished the people of Gaza and all of Palestine to try it best to provoke anykind of meagar attack do that they could go in and demolish hundreds and thousands.

YOU said, "You know it is raping your women and raping the minds of your children. You know it is educating to hatred and death. You know it is chauvinistic and violent, greedy and selfish, it feeds on your blood and screams out Allah’s name on vain, it hides like a thief, uses the innocent as human shields, uses your mosques as arsenals, lies and cheats, uses YOU, tortures you, holds you hostage!!"
I say, you know nothing about Islamic culture, Arab culture, Palestinian culture at all. You know nothing of how women are admired, honored and treated like jewels. You know nothing of the strong Arab women I know (Muslim and Christian) who are professionals, who are executives, who are medical doctors, who are teachers, mothers.

YOU said, "I know you are SICK of being held hostage by this demon, this ugly beast, .....I have watched it miss so many opportunities, and as a citizen of this country I am the first to admit it and criticize its foolery. ....."
I say, "Why do you think it is just to wall in an entire ethnic group of people who are indigenous to a region, torture them by building beautiful settlements in view of their eyes on land stolen from them, construct super highways that they are not allowed to used, oppress them, cut them off from any means of making a decent living, imprison them on a whim for any reason at all including children, bulldoze down their homes for any obscure or made up reason, brutalize them at checkpoints and even torture them in front of other Palestinians, obliterate them hundreds at a time because they tried to fight for their right to exist, .................... NO justice - No peace ----- ever heard of Ilan Palle

YOU said, "Enough my brother …." Do you treat your brothers this way?

YOU said, "you want some coffee? Here, sit for a while…lets talk….we know the words, we know the songs, we know the road…."
I say, any Palestinian that I know would love to simply drive or walk to your home to sit with you in a civilized manner to drink coffee, sing, talk, laugh, contemplate life, etc..... but, unfortunately they are being held captivate to Israeli imposed apartheid. Israel would be a beautiful place if the Palestinians also had such a luxury as to simply be able to come visit you to sit and drink coffee. What a luxury to have such freedom!

Roro Faraj,
Christian, American, Palestinian at heart, who loves all people of all belief systems all over the world.

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Replies to This Discussion

Hi, I read almost all comments. The whole argument is being done while nobody gets any answers. Let me make it clear.
WE ARE ALL PART OF THE DEAL. Myron, David (me), Ruach, Rojo, and all... we argue like kids. Through educated words, show our compassion. The truth is, nobody of u would do one thing to make thing better but complain about it.

The situation is this:
Is school there is always the big guy. The one that others respect but nobody really likes. He is good at math and physics by himself but he is also strong (This is Israel). lets call him Dan. on the other side is the weak guy (Hamas). lets call him Mahmud. Nobody respects him, even not its friends (Arab leaders) because he is known to be a troublemaker. Mahmud has been bitten up lots of times by the Dan, and he hates him very much. but most of all he hates to see himself being hated by himself. he needs to know, that he is weak and poor only because he has been bitten up by the Dan several times.
Dan used to be weak himself also... for lots of years until he told himself : "if u ever want to get respect, go to the gym..."
The other guys in school look every time Mahmud tries to encourage Dan the go to fight.. Dan is sick of it. but when the Mahmud gets what he deserves he shouts to all the others how miserable he is. In that he discourages himself to get better, to get a little bit of self esteem and study well to make his life better.
All the other guys have their little "Mahmud" inside them also because part of them have been bitten up by Dan but after all they started to respect him. But still they feel bad for little Mahmud.

But what can they do, He is a trouble maker.

We are arguing without any knowledge. We are blind eyed. We talk about peace but everyone of us wants to convince the other side with his truth.

The situation is this: Hamas are terrorists and troublemakers. Palestinian people are poor and misarable (they didn't even elect this governement - these elections were a joke). They are paying for their disability to know what is good for THEM. Israel is the strong side - with prosperous economy and strong ability - who wants to continue in its lands to get more prosperous and to develop.

Yours always, and most condolences to all casualties of this and also other wars,
Why is Israel killing babies, women and the elderly? Do you agree with this? 900 dead for what!
Israel made the Palestinians miserable. Israel made the Palestinians poor. Israel also has created a stronger unity among Palestinians who might not have sided with Hamas before certainly will now. So, do you agree with genocide? Do you agree with killing hundreds to thousands for a few freedom fighters? Israel is the terrorist. Israel has the force and the technology to kill precisely. Israel is the one committing war crimes and breaking all rules of international war and breaking every human rights violation known to man. Israel is the terrorist. Shame on Israel.
I will pray for you to soften your heart, open your eyes, and admit when you know something is horribly wrong.
I pray for you. I feel so blessed that God gave me the wisdom to see the truth and speak it out loud. I am so thankful that God gave me a big heart that always gets in my way of just feeling comfortable. Sometimes it is so hard to speak the truth and to admit wrong doing. Sometimes we are so trapped by our committment to other human beings that we are associated with that we just can't face the truth. It takes a big person to stand up for what is just and humane. I have learned that it is best to be honest even when it hurts. I have learned that it is best to do the right thing even when you are pressured by your own people not to make that choice. It is our own soul we must concerned with. I cannot stand silently anymore while these atrocities are being committed in my own time in front of my own eyes. Wrong is wrong. Evil is evil. We belong to this planet Earth it doesn't belong to us.
Dear Rojo Faraj,

U are part of the game, like me. Still u are not the one that decides. I'm neither. The truth U see may be far away from the reality. Your illusions are only yours. My illusions are mine. The press is the Illusioner for both of us. I suggest u to stop talking about things u don't understand. I learned some things about what is right and wrong and what really happens and what is a way of stronger forces to make us believe. nothing is as u think it is. the only way is to live inside it. I live inside it much more then u I suppose. so I know better the situation (I think about this every moment in every day I live here). I think about everything by the way and I'm not connected too much to my jewish side.
As for u, U have to learn listening first. Its frustrating. If u want to know more about this conflict, go to Wikipedia and study, read, and get better. If u want to live it, go to live in either of the both sides (sderot, beer sheva... or Gaza) and feel as we (or them) feel.
I'm listening to u and I hear only questions, uneducated questions. questions which come from your warm heart but don't pass through your brain. Thinking and studying are not a shame. Calling Israel terrorist is also not forbidden, but at least show me what are your claims.
I look at Geneva Conventions. Read part 4 (28, 31). Learn, study! don't through your thoughts just like this. Palestinian people deserve much better advocate.

I hope u don't feel bad for what i said, But I mean every word. In order to argue u need to take 3 companions: Logus, Ethus, Phatus. Logic point of view, Ethic point of view, and feelings u have and your hearts point of view. u fail in first two. this is not enough.

Have a nice week.
Agreed! He isn't worth our energy...... a nothing-ness, a void of humanity... Well, I am off to work! Talk soon!
a nothingness? void of humanity?
Dearest Ruach, and dear Roro,

I agree with Ruachs two posts 100%. I have a problem with the debate which as far as i am concerned is finished. My debate is within myself..that is what tuckers me out.

That is why i also will heed Ruachs advice and not get into a discussion with David. I think that behind his simple parable there may be some valid points..but of course they have been argued about over and over again...He has missed the point and that is Des, Ruach and Roro see the horrible situation NOW, in front of their eyes.

This is the catastrophe to which they must respond. It is not a question of what the details are or trying to wade through all the nuances, arguments and counterargument it is a question of their actual relevance to the present situation AND to the future. (And this is where i disagree with their perspective. I believe that we must look at the broader picture, although without getting weighted down by the bombardment of arguments and counterarguments)

I respect Des, love Ruach and give Roro enough credit (even though she sounds so harsh) to know that they all care about Peace in the region that includes both Palestine and Israel. This is as much as i can ask for now.

In love. myron
Nice, nice...

As long as it fits you guys you all obligate to talk in a respectful and polite manner, but once a different attitude is being shown offensive behaviour and ignorance takes over again. I hold David's opinion as well, and I'm not being paid to do this.

I'm a reserve officer in the IDF and I was educated to respect people's life. Roro - your stories about kids and women being shot are lies (I was considering to say non-accurate, but not, these are lies), from the other hand I've found, myself, explosive belt in an ambulance, just under a pregmant woman, but that's off the issue now since that's not the point...

I'm not here to argue, there's no chance that we'll agree as to most of the things, trust me, I know that, however you should respect others opinions - if you all agree with each other there's no point in wasting time here - please show minumum respect before refering to others opinions as 'shite'.

What David says is that the hunderds of Israelies also paid the price of this stupid conflict and you can not act as if Israel is attacking for no reason at all.The operation must be stopped, by the decision of both sides, at the moment Hamas still shooting missiles at Israel and denies any cease-fire, how come that never came up nor the Israeli victicms?

The consequences are hard, indeed, and I'm crying for the Israeli and Palestinian blood spell in this conflict for no real reason (if there were no missiles there would be no siege - however, its kinda remind me the egg and the chicken story) ....

To make a long story short:
1. Try to observe both sides of the story, Israel attacks for a reason, would any of your countries accept missiles falling on its territory? I doubt it,
2. Lets respect one each other - peace starts in talking and one who can not act politely on a forum can not preach for other to go and actually make peace
3. Lets try not to find who's guilty and who's the victim, but how can we ease the suffer of both side's victims

In love

Dear Ruach, thanks for your quick reply.

In the debating culture I know, if you quote someone, you should do it in whole, otherwise you could mislead other people as to the content. Here's what I've said in whole:

"I'm not here to argue, there's no chance that we'll agree as to most of the things, trust me, I know that, however you should respect others opinions - if you all agree with each other there's no point in wasting time here - please show minumum respect before refering to others opinions as 'shite'."

I don't find David's comment as offensive as the answers he's got, he hasn't blamed anyone to be writing for ransom, hasn't used dirty words (such as shite) and tried to keep it within the borders. This is an international forum and I won't try to draw the borders - however, even if he's crossed the borders, the comments were far beyond the debating culture I, and many other, will accept.

I believe most of the people will agree that we should keep a minimum respect (and I expect, offcourse, the same respect from David).

And as to what I've said - respecting and accepting an opinion are not similar and people here should accept it, or in Voltaire's words:

“I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.”

All the best, and may the violence, from both sides, stop soon!!

Dear Myron ... I know how you feel ... the mental exhaustion of having to defend right from wrong ... of being on the right side or the wrong ...of witnessing man's inhumanity to man ... and not be able to rectify it ... the list goes on and on and on and we are all weary ... hence the reason I no longer participate in these discussions ... I just want all this madness to end, so that you and I and our children and his and hers over there, can live in true peace ..... I no longer understand why that is so unattainable ... but I shall continue to light the candle of hope ...

Peace be with you Myron always
Dear all,

I am not paid for what I say. I respect you all. I respect Palestinian people much more then you would like me to. I have friends with whom I talk fluently about my opinions, part of them arabs part of them are jewish.
Not all of them agree with what I say, but they all have the ability to listen. Thats how I choose my best friends.
I may be thought as a very cold person. Thats true. I tell u a little bit about myself.
I'm a Israeli citizen. I served my army duty as a commander of soldiers. Just now I'm doing my degree in Electrical Engineer in Technion (The technical Institute in nothern Haifa). As one I try to think about thing analyticly. Not meens I don't have any feelings.
During my life I gained some points of view about some truthes in life:
1. People are people. everywhere, in any era. in any country they behave like human beings. I hope u all agree with me.
2. Although all of us have the analytic ability (Logic), all of us are influenced mostly by FEELINGS. not by logics.
At the start of my service I was very cold and did things in a very straight way. I orderred my orders and wanted them to be fullfilled in the best way. BUT! nothing was happening as I wanted. I was an awfull leader. Everybody hated me.
In some point I talked with my commander about my big problem. He was the one that told me: People are motivated not by fear but by feelings. The common soldier wouldn't do anything if he doesn't have the feeling of shame. The shame of dissapointing his friends. the shame of dissapointing you (AS A FRIEND FIRST OF ALL).
I'm sorry to announce I was lead by by feelings and talked with you in a COLD way. I did my ancient mistake.
I hope U follow and agree.
What I ment is that: Though people are led by their feelings, almost non of the global problems were solved by just giving a flower and a kiss. On the other hand, FEELINGs are commonly used by the leaders of countries to create WAR. LOGIC is commonly used to avoid war, or in WINNING a war. Do you follow?
The way to finish a conflict is NOT by kissing babies. Thats the way to be elected as a president. The way to finish a conflict is to THINK. To WEIGHT. To LISTEN and STUDY about the other. To show the other that your are also a human being that has the ability to UNDERSTAND.
Israel is a very strong country. Militarily and Morally. U may not agree because you are led by your ancient feelings. I UNDERSTAND you and I UNDERSTAND you are unable to believe me right now. Israel's ARMY (which is Much stronger then lots of other armies in the world by the way - even some very BIG countries) is strong not only because it has Better equipement but because its MORAL. I have no doubt U will disagree and get cynical answers to me about it - BUT ITS OK BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND U - you are like me.
Motty said he saw lots of CRIMES being made by the other side. I can tell you more. about their crimes towards their own population but what is the point - you will not believe me. I can tell you that a shooting Hamas guy took one of his children (HIS) to shield himself (and that was a great success for him because thats the only reason he was not shot down). But ok. You can say I'm talking nonsense.
What I do expect u to believe is that Israels army is much stronger physicly then Hamas BUT their strength is in their WEAKNESS. They fight back fairly hard by making warm people like you press Israel to stop killings. They convince the whole naive world that WE ARE THE BAD GUYS!
I respect that. If I was Hamas leader I WOULD DO THE SAME!

The question is how we solve this conflict. The answer is by letting Palestinian people be FREE to think themselves what is better for them. The answer is by making education and by showing the good life. The answer is by cutting off this regime that FILLS their minds that HAMAS is the only thing in the WORLD. that LIFE IS HARD AND FULL OF BLOOD. That KURAN is the only truth. THAT a killed child as a shahid will go to heaven with 72 beautiful virgins females.

Well think about it. I don't have any intentions to hurt anyones feelings.
I suggest u to study about worldwide conflicts. Maybe also about you own countries conflicts. How where they solved.
I suggest u to be more critical about what enters your ears and what your eyes see.

With love to all,
You and I share
the prayer and desire
that the war ends..
and that following the war
we and/or
our political leaders
can finally deal with the valid issues raised by David.

Of course i, as an israeli, can not ignore them now either..
and i think world opinion should consider them if it really wants to influence the future constructively.

But dear Ruach
you are You (thank G-d)
and not world opinion.

If you were world opinion there would be no war to begin with
No violence..
Only passion for compassion.

in love


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