Bare with me folk, I am not pessimistic, and my quest for peace is not rhetorical.

I have hopped on this site from another, where we have had long discussions about Middle East peace, involving all possible parties, and the discussion took the very usual pattern:

You started it, no you started it.
We were here first, no we were here first.
Peace is giving us our rights, no, peace is giving us our rights.
Recognize us first, no, you recognize us first.
Killing your people is justified when you kill ours.
Killing your people is justified since we have been killed before.
Your children are taught how to hate.
Your children are taught how to hate.

At the end, all peace activists end up echoing corrupt politicians, war lords, and quote the propaganda machines to get their point across. Peace equals winning, no compromise.

I quit that site and came here, hoping to find people who can really step out of themselves, and be self-critical in a proactive sense, people dedicated to conflict prevention rather than take responsive measures (not undermining the latter, but it proved to be impotent against the interests of the arms industry).

I live in Sweden, a nation that gives jews and arabs all support and aid, and sell weapons to both at the same time. This double standard is nothing new.

Why talk among us peace activists? Where does this lead? We need to talk to the war machine and propagandists. I am new here, and I admittedly come with stereotypes about peace activism.

You will find me throwing flowers at guns flashing back at me, you'll find me having a beer with an Israeli soldier to persuade him to give up his weapon, and the next day I will undress a Palestinian jihadist of his suicide belt. You will find me pushing politicians in the corners of great halls and press conference rooms, facing them with their own lies. You will find me in lecture rooms and universities teaching about the propaganda machines to journalism students. But I am tired of those online discussions, and I embark here on a last chance of having a discussion that leads to actual projects on the ground, otherwise, I won't be here either.

Am not making a martyr out of myself already, and I risked sounding a tad bit too serious. I am just cutting to the chase as I come here to meet you wonderful folk.

So what is the point of such discussions really? if we only talk among ourselves.

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Interesting and it is something that I too started on my discussion if we needed a war supporter. You might want to see the responses I got. But here, you get more involved and I do hope that people respond. Hang in here, wait for your responses. Don't give up. Maybe you can help also in opening up your philosophies, and especially I think people from all over have to respond. That is another point that I think is important, to not scare them away if we really want to understand everyone's viewpoint.
good luck
Stephanie
Rami, The common knowledge is that the world is a struggle between groups over control of scarce resources . . . and so it is . . .

Whatever any of us have thought in the past – it has created the world that we see today.

if the world we see is not the one we want, and the world we have is created from what we think – then we are thinking wrong in some critical aspect. To change the world we must change our thinking. In this quest to identify the erroneous assumptions – if we are truly egalitarian – the only assumptions we can examine are our own – because everyone gets to make their own choices – and the only choice we control is our own.

We can not assume that we are right and “they” are wrong. There is only we. If the world is not what we want then we are all wrong. And what is the world we want? If every one gets to make their own choices, each one of us would choose a world that works for us. Is it not then true that what we want is a world that works for everyone? A world in which every human being can choose to explore their potential?

I have some ideas on how WE might accomplish that . . . if you are interested let me know:

Introduction to Three Dimensional Networking
Rob,

I'd like to socialize with you too :)
Robert said:

personally i do my own thing, in life, and have my commitment to that

zali said:

I rather see that many, perhaps the majority, are here on earth to witness these things, change how they wish to live their lives based on what they see and learn from others, live their lives sharing what little or much they may have to the cause of understanding each other then perhaps those who are here to engage can do so in a way other than has been done before.

And this is where I agree. We spend so much time talking about what other people "should" do, when the world is the cumulative result of all the choices all of us make. It is the connections that each of us maintain that is important - and we each choose those connections whether we are conscious of making a choice or not. Each of us has the power to change the world because it is our choices that create it.
Are there Palestinians, Israelis. Afghanis, Iraqis, North Koreans, Iranians, Chinese, Venezuelans, Cubans, etc. out there (I mean, participating on this website)?

Such would be critical to realizing world peace through understanding and cooperation.


With much love,

Mike Morin
www.peoplesequityunion.blogspot.com
Rami,
This is a place of sanity..(Well, not always..there is a beautiful insanity..or naivite here sometimes).
It is a place where i can discover real people who actually have a vision of a better world, even if it doesn't fit the harsh realities.

And when we get down to the nitty gritty people may come and spout with their preconceived notions...their perspective..their fears and demons..YET..there is an openess and even a willingness to question those demons.

So, when at the height of the terrible violence in Gaza, i (an Israeli living on the West Bank) turn to a Palestinian in Nablus in friendship..and get a warm positive reply it is heart warming, while also encouraging me to stretch my perspectives just a little bit more.

I open myself to questioning here..and am thankful that many here are willing to put ready made labels.

For all this i am greatful
This is plenty Ruach, thanks!

I do not feel i can ignore judging myself and my leaders..Of course i will be much harsher on them when speaking to my friends who are in total support of the war effort than i allow myself here.

Here i try not blaming the other side and thus let my side off the hook. If we share a common dream..maybe we must learn to share the feeling of guilt and responsibility.
From my perspective.

The point of such discussions I believe is that together we as a collective "one" can set the proactive intention for the future. I believe a large proportion of war is the way in which "ones"communicate. Communication is difficult when lives live in an atmosphere that sees such devastation. How can those of who come together when the war of those may be at the feet of those that ones love? How difficult is that when ones peoples are stressed by the trauma that war sets in the streets and in the homes of those who observe? The action is a reaction - humanity would have it that someone is to blame; the fact is no-one is to blame. It is those who should understand that power is in the written word and go about to set things right instead of confusing people with not enough information; unrealistic information; unnecessary action; and words that mean nothing to someone who doesn't understand a meaning which has the possibility will scare him/her?

Keep the outreach and reach out often ... I care and there are many who will keep you empowered; because I believe that is what is required to keep focussed on the big picture. Distraction is a track that war derails on.

I am interested in the condition of humanity; I raise children so ofcourse I am interested in the big picture. Kind regards. Sharon.
hello rami, i do see your point of view but for me this site makes me feel i am not a lone voice and there are other people out there who are willing eventually to risk themselves for peace and support each other. the answers we are looking for may seem a bit idealistic and unatainable but the greatest movements must have started small and moved on. if we are looking for answers we must look at what history tell us, we might find some hope in the situation in northern ireland, where after more than 300 years of 'troubles' there is now calm government, not perfect but calm. thia peace was won by talking and a great deal of compromise on both sides as ther was a lot of ingrained hatred to overcome. we should learn lessons from this if we can. the situation in the middle east tonight is dismal and people are dying as we speak, there is no room tonight for talking but what else can be the answer?
Peace,

We need true representatives from both sides who know how to act like Jesusians and Buddhists and influence Moslems and Jews and Christians. We also need an equitable, sustainable plan that deals with the root causes; economic and military aggression and oppression.

In the column of this website to the right it quotes Marti Ahtisaari as suggesting Obama needs to give high priority to the Middle East situation. Every US Administration has, at least since Carter, and it seems based on the recent actions in Gaza, that we are further away from peace than ever. To me, Middle East Peace also means peace and friendship with the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, and friendship with Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, and all the other Communist/Socialist countries and their world-wide empathizers and sympathizers.

Obama must recognize that he is inheriting the role of Commander-in-Chief of a Fascist Military Industrial Complex that supports an aggressive imperialist subjugating Capitalist system. He needs to recognize and proclaim that WORLD PEACE is his top priority.

If he can recognize these things, and begin to act on the realities caused by the inequitable (and unsustainable) Capitalist system then, we will have made the first step in realizing a peaceful, equitable, sustainable world.

I'm a Work kin for pecae and cooperation,


Mike Morin
www.peoplesequityunion.blogspot.com
Certainly, not all World leaders want peace. Dick Cheney is the most blatant example. Having been through the revolving door of government and the Capitalist Conglomerate world, having served in various top executive positions with the Halliburton Company, which supplies military logistical goods and services, and oil and gas field and pipeline supplies, we can certainly see why Dick Halliburton was so in favor of the military aggressions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There is a huge defense industry in the United States and elsewhere. Certainly these people do not want peace. Unfortunately, such a "military-industrial complex" has very much in the way of financial clout in the so-called "Democratic" election processes.

With all the American military's sophisticated weaponry, they are able to wage cruel and vicious war campaigns with a relative minimum of troop strength.

Capitalism, by its nature of discounting the future, profiteering, and exploitation of people and resources has a voracious attitude for domination and expansion into new territories, when those territories are desirable from a natural resource perspective. Once you take a territory, you have to hold a territory. Thus we have Dick Cheney's proclamation of "unending war". Is genocide what the US and Israeli Militaries have in mind?
Des,

To hold on to your idealism, you need to remain cynical. It's what is called a healthy cynicism.

Over-throwing governments (peacefully) could help, though I know of no means to do this in the USA. The alternative is armed revolution and by doing that we'd be starting another war. Besides, even if we wanted to do that, we don't have the critical mass of people. Many people may be cognizant of the need, but almost no one is motivated.

More importantly however, we must recognize that it is the economic sysytem that needs to be changed. Creating a worldwide economic democracy based on a neighborhood/community/inter-community/inter-regional/worldwide Ecological Economic Redevelopment Plan based on the principles of peace, equity, humanity, and sustainability , would lead to the formation of a self-governing economic democracy - of, for, and by the people.

In the current situation, the governments are whores, the Capitalist Businessmen are the pimps.

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