I found a few things I think people should read to help them understand the Israeli Palestinian quagmire.
An article by Brandon Dean
Israel Created Hamas to Split Palestine
Israel's False Flag Operations Know No Bounds

http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=5309.0

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Yes it is true..the Palestinian people voted for Hamas (who then of course went way beyond what their elected mandate to do had been...but anyway...) Serge is right they got elected because the Falestin are in despair and their morale is hurt...yes they were elected but lets also remember that the Americans elected G.W. Bush...twice...most of them came to see that that was a mistake...

As to Israel not having been in existence before 1949 and essentially being a settler state that is a truth...however the complete and objective truth is that ALL of those states were created by British or French colonialism..The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan was created by the British like Israel was (and just exactly why do the Banu Hashim who came from Hijaz in what is now "Saudi" Arabia..why do the Hashemites need a Kingdom in Jordan anyway?...Just asking...)

Modern Syria is a truncated version of the original Syria which used to include Jordan and Lebanon as well as Palestine...See how convoluted this problem is?..

Again whatever solution is come up with the humanity of all the people there has to be taken into consideration
Well we can understand the history causes and effects of the conflict. Or try to. But the most important is to seek some solutions. It is rarely all black all white, There are some outstanding voices in Israel for peace. Israeli Lawmaker and Conscientious Objector Nephew of Ex-PM Benjamin Netanyahu Denounce Israeli Attack on Gaza Strip so even though the hardline in Israel and Palestine set the tone. There are decending voices. We must ech those voices and we mus bring as many people from Israel and Palestine to interact together inside a peace mouvement. They need us an international mouvement to keep bringing them in,
Peace
Serge, This is a very interesting and informative discussion and well managed as always. Thank you. Hopefully by looking closely at the complex situation a peaceful solution can be found. Standing on the outside all I can do is write letters for my government to support peace in the middle east, stop funding war and look at the situation with new eyes. I write messages of hope and love to all concerned and try to send a little something to bring some joy to the war torn region.
I do think that crazy conspiracy arrangements do go on and certainly maybe happening, but I think that it really doesn't matter. As we can see dwelling on this is a trap into the tangled blame game. I agree with Sunbow in that war only benefits those who profit financially from it and the armies and unfortunately the civilians are just pawns. Pawns that pay far too dearly. I have said lets build wind turbines instead of bombs and battle machines. It would be a better way to profit.Thank you for all your thoughts on the matter. Susan
In truth, we will not experience true peace on earth until we change the way we perceive reality. This long overdue consciousness shift will lead to the realization of the liberating and empowering aspect of oneness. One Universe, One Earth and One People.

In the words of Albert Einstein, "Human beings are a part of a whole called by us the universe,... a part limited in time and space. They experience themselves, their thoughts and their feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of their consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires, and to having affection for those few people who are nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison, by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures, and the whole of nature in it's beauty!" End Of Quote

When I am able to recognize the true and eternal aspect of myself, I will recognize and have more love, reverence and respect for that same eternal aspect of self as it exist in you and vise versa. The result will be Peace On Earth. The people of Israel and the people of Palestine are in reality one and the same. One People.

Charlie Kirkpatrick
mratteon
www.apocalypsenot.net
Hello and thank you Nicolette your analysis is very valuable and well informed and maybe you are right it does give a seed of compromise and forgiveness. The Jewish people had it hard.And it is understood that they pounced on the reality of making a land for themselves.U know all these powers like Ebngland France Portugal had such a colonial hold on these territories for so long since the 1500 in some African countries that they reshaped and distorted the historical evolution of the people that were there. Look at Africa and countries struggling with ethnic and national contradictions countries engulfing more then one nation or people and sometimes one nation spread across two or more countriesé That is because in the 60ties when the National and anti colonial period where most countries over there declared independance from their colonial rulers they followed political divisions that were established between the collonies of France and Britain Spain and such so it makes things very complicated.
Are you familiar with affirmative action? In the USA after the civil unrest with black people the law was made giving a stimulus for blacks for better education jobs. In other words policies were enacted to make things right with those who had been oppressed for so long. Israel should learn that lesson that the faster it starts reversing it's holocaust it is inflicting on a weaker nation Palestine the faster there will be forgiveness and peace.On the other hand if it continues to destroy homes make settlements on occupied land and these punishing policies not only will they sow the seedsa of generations of hate war fanatic responses but also their imminent global isolation. The world and the European nations will get really tired of footing the bills of reconstruction and humanitarian disaster that Israeli right wing people some of which should stand trial for crimes against humanity are constantly imposing on the world and Palestine,
I just wrote a song for Rachel Corrie. On the 16th of March we are doing a thing on FB and all over about it. I will record my song today and hopefully have the video finished for tomorrow.
Peace
Serge
Nicolette, your point is well made and well understood, but what we must keep in mind is this. Throughout human history on earth, whoever has possessed the more powerful army, has always had their way as it relates to controlling the less powerful members of the human family.

The point I want to stress is this. Decisions made over the course of human history have been made by people who had not recognized the fact that we are all one and the same, no matter what part of the earth we call our home. We have gone to war and slaughtered one another without the knowledge of our true nature and true identity!

There is in reality no such thing as a Palestinian, Israeli, Russian, Indian, American, or any other label that we mistakenly accept as our true identity. These labels only serve to subconsciously make us believe that we are different and keep us divided. If I accept the fact that I am Palestinian and you are Israeli, it will be easier for me to declare war on you and destroy you.

If we and world leaders are serious about establishing peace on earth before we poison our atmosphere beyond repair, we must realize and promote the fact that we are human beings who occupy the planet earth and we are all by nature the same.

Albert Einstein stated it best when he said, "Human beings are part of a whole, called by us the Universe,... a part limited in time and space. They experience themselves, their thoughts and their feelings, as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of their consciousness." "This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires, and to having affection for those few people who are nearest to us! Our task must be, to free ourselves from this prison, by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures, and the whole of nature in its beauty!" End of Quote.

The links below introduce data files that will help us in our effort to establish peace on earth.

http://www.apocalypsenot.net

http://www.youtube.com/mratteon

http://www.teamog.wordpress.com
If it were only that simple..
God bless you
There are about 33 million such sites and they all deserve a look-see.
Then, suggest you go to your local library - not a website - and ask to read something factual.
Seriously... I respect your rights and you may believe what you want to.
Clearly though - you have not been there and if you had (as I have - on BOTH sides) you would know propaganda from reality and hatred from genuine care and concern.
The Palestinians are desperate for a future.
PLEASE give them one by learning what is rhetorical rubbish and what are the facts.

Peace
Hey Gil I agree with you that Palestinians are desperate for a future, So If you have good solid information that
would help this discussion please take the time to share it with us on this site, I know I have not been there but I have followed the events all my life and I understand that unless people who live in the USA and people who live in the middle east especially Israel need to change their outlook on reality.
So I listen to democracynow with Amy Goodman the only real honest media in the USA and I try to engage those people.
So here we are a so called peace site and people practically do not discuss the issues this very forum got very few comments and your telling me I need to go to a library well gee thanks.
Maybe you should listen to some http://www.democracynow.org/ .
You know Gil I have been reading the news for years and have learned to read between the headlines.
here is a song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7HiWAFD5c
Serge
Hi there and peace to you and your close ones. Thanks for the sites. Very interesting.
Peace can come about when greed stops.
Peace can come about when adults place toddlers of different races colors and creeds on the floor and watch them interact and play with no problem.
When adults re claim the innocence and purity of a child, only then will we find peace.

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