If God loves us why is he letting other ppl to fight one another"

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ali Afifi on January 2, 2009 at 2:28pm

Dear Michael,
If u like the argue for only argue, forgive me I do not like but if u like argue for learning, welcome, and in either case u are my friend.

U said "I feel however that if you put your faith in an external active God structure, you miss something important. The energy of God as you call it is within all things including ourselves and is constantly evolving."
I do not miss and I agree with u that the energy of God is within all things because this energy is a creature similar to all other creatures of the God. God is not created but energy is created because energy is variant and energy is unwise creature. The unwise creature can not create wise, balanced universe with million of balanced, wise creatures. The chance theory of the energy can not create all these balances in the universe.

U said " Why do we have to prove God does or does not exist? There is never a need to defend truth, because it stands alone, needing no defense."
Apologize me if I said that the blind man can not see the light although it is present and it is truth for all seen ones.
God said in Quran " (45) Have they not traveled through the land, and have they hearts wherewith to understand and ears wherewith to hear? Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind. (46) And they ask you to hasten on the torment! And Allâh fails not His Promise. And verily, a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you reckon. (47)

U said " Why should one man or one group have truth revealed to them over the other."
It is easy to say to u that u will ask the same question whatever the revelation came to but also I will answer u. God sent the same religion to the people since Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohamed. The message was one " "O my people! Worship Allâh! You have no other Ilâh (God) but Him. (Lâ ilâha ill-allâh: none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh). Will you not fear (Allâh)?" (65)

When God sent any messenger, He ordered him to inform all the human kind, not only the people around him and every prophet carried the message to all the people without difference. God loves all the people and all the people are equal in front of the God. God said in quran
" O mankind! surely God created you of a male and a female, and made you into nations and races, that you may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is the most righteous." God speak to all human kind and not the Muslims or Christians.

Apologize me I will complete my answer to soon.

Permalink Reply by Ali Afifi on January 2, 2009 at 11:20pm

My dear friend, In the Quran, God invites people to reject blindly accepting the beliefs and values society imposes on them and to ponder by pushing aside all the prejudices, taboos and constraints on their minds.

Man must think on how he came into being, what the purpose of his life is, why he will die and what awaits him after death. He must question how he, himself, and the whole universe came into existence and how they continue to exist. While doing this, he must relieve himself of all constraints and prejudices.

By thinking while isolating his conscience from all social, ideological and psychological obligations, the person should eventually perceive that the entire universe, including himself, is created by a superior power. Even when he examines his own body or any other thing in nature, he will see an impressive harmony, plan and wisdom at work within its design.

Concerning this point again, the Quran guides man. In the Quran, God guides us as to what we should reflect on and investigate. With the methods of reflection given in the Quran, he who has faith in God will better perceive God’s perfection, eternal wisdom, knowledge and power in His creation. When a believing person starts to think in the way shown in the Quran, he soon realizes that the whole universe is a sign of God’s power and art, and that, “nature is a work of art, not the artist itself”. Every work of art exhibits the exceptional skills of the one who has made it and conveys his messages.

In the Quran, people are summoned to contemplate numerous events and objects that clearly testify to the existence and uniqueness of God and His attributes. In the Quran, all these beings that bear witness are designated as “signs”, meaning “tested evidence, absolute knowledge and expression of truth”. Therefore, the signs of God comprise all the beings in the universe in that they disclose and communicate the being and attributes of God. Those who can observe and remember will see that the entire universe is entirely composed of the signs of God.

This, indeed, is the responsibility of mankind: to be able to see the signs of God. Thus, such a person will come to know the Creator who created him and all other things, draw closer to Him, discover the meaning of his existence and his life and so prosper.

Each thing, the breath a human takes; political and social developments; the cosmic harmony in the universe; the atom, which is one of the smallest pieces of matter, is each a sign of God, and they all operate under His control and knowledge, abiding by His laws. Recognizing and knowing the signs of God calls for personal effort. One will recognize and know the signs of God in accordance with his own wisdom and conscience.

Undoubtedly, some guidelines may also help. As the first step, one can investigate certain points stressed in the Quran in order to acquire the mentality that perceives the whole universe as an articulation of the things created by God.

God’s signs in nature are emphasized in a chapter(Surat Al-Nahl) call “The Bee”:

“It is He who sends down water from the sky. From it you drink and from it come the shrubs among which you graze your herds. And by it He makes crops grow for you and olives and dates and grapes and fruit of every kind. Therein is certainly a sign in that for people who reflect. He has made the night and the day subservient to you, and the sun, the moon and the stars, all subject to His command. Therein are certainly signs in that for people who use their intellect. And also, the things of varying colors He has created for you in the earth. There is certainly a sign in that for people who pay heed. It is He who made the sea subservient to you so that you can eat fresh flesh from it and bring out from it ornaments to wear. And you see the ships cleaving through it so that you can seek His bounty, and so that perhaps you may show thanks. He cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so it would not move under you, and rivers, pathways, and landmarks so that perhaps you might be guided. And they are guided by the stars. Is He Who creates like him who does not create? O will you not pay heed?”(Quran 16:10-17)

In the Quran, God invites men of understanding to think about the issues which other people overlook or just dismiss using such barren terms as “evolution”, “coincidence”, or “a miracle of nature”.


"In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day, there are Signs for people of intelligence: those who remember God standing, sitting and lying on their sides, and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth:
“Our Lord, You did not create this for nothing. Glory be to You! So guard us from the punishment of the Fire.” (Quran 3:191)

As we see in these verses, people of understanding see the signs of God and try to comprehend His eternal knowledge, power and art by remembering and reflecting on them, for God’s knowledge is limitless, and His act of creating flawless.

For men of understanding, everything around them is a sign of this creation.

Permalink Reply by Michael on January 3, 2009 at 10:03am

I do not argue for the sake of argument, but to engage and learn from my fellow man.

I have to ask though, if you feel God is in us all, then how can their be a superior being?

The problem with most of your argument is that they are based entirely on your culture and your perceptions of the world. I do not believe in the Quran, the Torah, or the Bible. I do not believe any book to hold any kind of exclusive truth. Quoting the Quran is really not going to convince me of your points. I have read the book as I have extensively studied religion, but I do not believe it to be revealed truth.

I feel more connected to eastern philosophy such as the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching and the writings of Dogen Zenji. But I do not discount western religions, it is simply that I feel little connection with them.

All people are messengers of God if we just allow ourselves to see them that way. Each person carries a lesson with them for others to learn. In this way we are always giving each other messages, but we must look hard to see them.

You said, "Man must think on how he came into being, what the purpose of his life is, why he will die and what awaits him after death. He must question how he, himself, and the whole universe came into existence and how they continue to exist."

I happen to disagree, man should focus on the present problems, not the unknowable. If we are going to quote texts I should offer up the parable of the Arrow presented by Buddhist writings.

"The Buddha was sitting in the park when his disciple Malunkyaputta approached him. Malunkyaputta had recently retired from the world and he was concerned that so many things remained unexplained by the Buddha. Was the world eternal or not eternal? Was the soul different from the body? Did the enlightened exist after death or not? He thought, 'If the Buddha does not explain these things to me, I will give up this training and return to worldly life'.

He put these questions to the Buddha who replied, "Now did I ever say to you that if you led a religious life you would understand these things? It is as if a man had been wounded by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, and his friends, companions relatives were to get a surgeon to heal him, and he were to say, 'I will not have this arrow pulled out until I know who wounded me, of what caste he is, what his name is, whether he is tall, short or of medium height, what colour his skin is, where he comes from, what kind of bow I was wounded with, what it was made of, whether the arrow was feathered with a vulture's wing or a heron's or a hawk's�..' Surely the man would die before he knew all this."

"Whether the view is held that the world is eternal or not, Malunkyaputta, there is still re-birth, old age, death, grief, suffering, sorrow and despair - and these can be destroyed in this life! I have not explained these other things because they are not useful, they are not conducive to tranquility and Nirvana. What I have explained is suffering, the cause of suffering, the destruction of suffering and the path that leads to the destruction of suffering. This is useful, leading to non-attachment, the absence of passion, perfect knowledge."

When we live for heaven we miss life. This is a grave error. One should live for life otherwise life is not worth living.

No God who was truly infinite would be capable of punishing us. For one who is infinitely wise and loving would have infinite compassion. If human beings can display great compassion, such as Gandhi, in wanting no one to suffer, then an infinite being could never want any to suffer. Even if I accepted the idea of an active god it is entirely illogical to believe that this active God would ever punish anyone. If God is infinite there can be no divine justice, as justice is a human construction based on judgment and lack of compassion.

Human beings are only as limited as we make ourselves.

Permalink Reply by Kana Gopal on January 3, 2009 at 10:31am

the belief that God is in us is a belief.

my experience thru raja yoga meditation is we possess God's divinity. we can be God-like in nature because we are all children of God. God is separate from us souls. just as one person cannot be in another, God is an entity just as we are. separate.

if we possess God's divinity, there is no question of ranking. all are equal.

the hierachy or levels of responsibility is needed for humanity to function on earth. so if we see our parts as roles we play in the big scheme of things, there will be no sense of being superior or inferior. unfortunately, most people cling to their roles and identify themselves with the roles, their possessions, titles etc...

i am with michael that God doesn't punish. God is an Ocean of Love, Compassion and all the values and inner powers. it is we who suffer when we realise how far away we have moved from our divinity and our beauty.

in the big picture, all is right. everything is happening as it should. we should tap into the present consciousness and evolve into divine beings and not be distracted by what is happening around us.

Permalink Reply by Ali Afifi on January 3, 2009 at 9:30pm

It is sufficient to me to accept the idea of an active God then when u search by yourself, u will reach the truth. Please read the Quran
http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/

Permalink Reply by Peace_maker on January 4, 2009 at 12:35am

may peace be with man kind and for that which God speaks through the very religion that one believes in his or her own in enlightenment. if man wants peace" then he should want it not in war or religion. in my own belief ..I feel God is sad that man kind shows no compassion what he speak by
or in his meaning" if God saw human kindness in man then then they would not be so much, jealousy , hatred.( Ali. its not the fault of what religion one goes by it is what is said that all men should do is obey what is in the bible or the Quran..in any case a pastor who speaks from the bible
and one that should listen should do good over evil or a Amman which speaks from the Quran each Muslim should do the same... but many times that ppl go to church or in a mosque don't go by what one preaches on.

Permalink Reply by Manyfeather on January 3, 2009 at 5:16pm

I am glad to have free will. It's a glorious state of Being, to choose from moment to moment the Me to express.
While it's disconcerting to see war around us, I take heart knowing that the same free will that allows me to live peacefully allows others to choose their own expressions and walk their own path.

At some point all paths lead to the same place, by living peace I am offering a handful of peace and breadcrumbs that others can follow when they please.

love is contagious,
Donna

Permalink Reply by Peace_maker on January 4, 2009 at 12:50am

manyfeather I love what you had spoke that I am glad to have free will. it surely said it all in ur words
May love be a part of ur human kindness...peace never really parts from us it is only if we all could 4give what we do...if others would forgive our mistakes that we do normal y to each other, at times some time its hard to Be Godly imperfect which we will never be.

Permalink Reply by Kana Gopal on January 4, 2009 at 5:08am

my understanding of God's response to the present state of world affairs and people behaving so far away from their highest self is not sadness but mercy. He (i am using this for lack for pronoun merging both male & female attributes) wants to uplift the consciousness of all His children. He will do this by cooperating with those who choose truth, peace, love, respect and everything beautiful.

He is definitely giving His cooperation on this forum which is handled with with peace and respect.

i am with manyfeather re: following one's path. there are many paths to cater to the needs of the different children. all we have to be aware is that we are all spiritual brothers and sisters and should accept each other, guide and support each other to achieve what our Parent wants -- a peaceful and happy world where respect for each is a way of life, where co-operation and collaboration is the way to work/operate.

Permalink Reply by Sharon R. Aldridge on January 6, 2009 at 5:42pm

Because God created humans as agents of free will and not as robots (although He may be considering taking us back to "square one"!!!) (lol) Happy New Year! God bless! Sharon

Permalink Reply by DrMillionaire on January 8, 2009 at 4:56am

Seeing the Divine in All

This is the principle that the Divine is present and can be seen everywhere and in all manifestations of life. It is interwoven in all things like an intricate mosaic whose pieces adhere to the same wall, and are thus unified. However, it is not the picture that unifies the mosaic, but the underlying wall upon which its pieces adhere. Similarly, the Divine paints a picture so diverse and seemingly unrelated that there appears to be no unification. Yet it is not the outward manifestations that unify. It is the inward center of divine energy upon which the pieces of diversity are layered that unifies all life.

This centerpiece of energy is the collective storehouse of all life within the universe. It is the full expression of the Divine, which invests itself in all forms through the projection of its divine intelligence into all manifestations of life. Thus, divine intelligence—acting as an extension of the Divine—is the unifying energy that is the "wall" upon which all the pieces of life's mosaic adhere.

Seeing the Divine in all is the principle that all manifestations of life convey an expression of All That Is. It does not matter how far the unifying energy has been distorted or corrupted; the Divine can be observed. It is the action of perceiving the unification of energy even when the outward manifestations appear random, distorted, or chaotic. It is the realization that all life flows from one divine energy source that links all to One and one to All.

When every manifestation of life can be genuinely perceived as a fragmentary expression of All That Is, the vibration of equality that underlies all life becomes perceptible to you. You realize that life initially emerges as an extension of the Divine, and then, as an individuated energy frequency invested within a form. This individuated energy vibrates, in its pure, timeless state, precisely the same for all manifestations of life. This is the common ground that all life shares. This is the tone or vibration of equality that can be observed within all life forms that unifies all expressions of diversity to the very foundation of existence. If you are able to look upon any and all forms of life with the outlook of equality, then you are seeing the Divine in all.

While this may seem like an abstract concept, it is actualized through the practice of looking for the outward and inward manifestations of the Divine. In a very real sense, you expect to observe the workings of divine intelligence in every facet of your experience.

The principle of seeing the Divine in all is the unassailable expectation that everything is in its rightful position, performing its rightful function, and serving its purpose to activate the fullest expression of its life in the present moment. It is the outlook that all life is in a state of optimal realization and experience regardless of condition or circumstance. It is the perception that life is perfect in its expression because it flows from perfection, and that no matter how divergent its manifestations are, all life is an extension of the Divine.

In light of the obvious turmoil and destruction that are apparent on Earth, this is an outlook or perception that may seem naive. How can life—in all its forms and expressions—be perceived as optimal or perfect? This is the great paradox of life, and it cannot be reconciled with your mental or emotional capabilities. It can only be understood in the context of the soul, which is deathless, timeless, and limitless. Paradoxes exist because the human drama is too limited in scope and scale to allow a perception of wholeness to illuminate how the pieces of the puzzle are unified in perfect relation.

The human drama is circumscribed by the dimensions of time and space and the elements of energy and matter. It is played out upon the stages of survival and dysfunctional behavior because of the methods of controlling information and manipulating conditions used by those operating within the hierarchical paradigm. The soul within the human body is largely unexpressed and underutilized in this human drama, and therefore, life's apparent perversions and imperfections are seen in isolation as impediments to perfection rather than perfection itself.

Life is perfect in its resolve to expand and express an intelligence that is limitless. This is the fundamental purpose of life in all its diverse manifestations.

The presence of the Divine expressing itself as a vibration of equality can be seen in all things. Sensory input derived from the human body is limited to frequencies in specific ranges that only convey an echo of this divine vibration. The divine resonance of all life is understood only through deliberate and focused contemplation of the equality inherent in all things, and through the ability to penetrate beyond the image of a thing to the origin of the image. Calling forth the divine perceptions of the soul within your own being is the ideal method to access a lasting sensitivity to the divine vibration. This is how you develop the ability to see the Divine in all.

It is not only that the Divine is found within you and within every individual manifestation of life; it is also in itself the wholeness of all life. Thus, this principle calls for seeing the Divine in all its diverse forms of manifestation, as well as in the wholeness of life itself.

These insights stimulate a new sensory system beyond the five senses that rule the physical world. These new senses are an outgrowth of the awakening of your sacred intentions. They are manifestations of the first stage of profound personal transformation. With this new perceptual ability, you will be capable of sensing not only the presence of the Divine, but also the timeless divine essence that exists at the core of every living being.


Herbert

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