Short introduction to the topic by Mazin:
All observers know that there has been significant changes in the political, cultural and economic landscape that are forcing a reexamination of assumptions about peaceful outcomes. For example, there are now 500,000 Israeli Jewish settlers in the areas Israel occupied in 1967. Those areas represent about 20% of historic Palestine and these are the same areas envisioned to be the future Palestinian state. There is thus a revival of the consideration of a one state outcome (whether a binational state, a confederation, or a secular democratic state for all its people). The forum is interested in a respectful discussion of the merits of these outcomes (some may call solutions but others disagree with the terminology which implies that there visions are mere solutions to manufactured problems). We urge you to focus discussion on just and peaceful outcomes and we will remove postings which suggest perpetual conflicts as inevitable or that denigrade religions or ethnicities. In your comments please focus on the issues (which are political) and not the persons and try to understand different perspectives. You may start by referring to these questions or as you like, please be aware to group guidelines and help us maintain productive and dignified discussion.
Why do you think people can or can't exist in a unitary state of all people regardless of their religion? What do you think is the biggest obstacle to getting people to recognize the inherent dignity and equality of all other people?
You raise important issues and i tend to agree that both Peoples will need significant political and/or cultural autonomy within any future solution.
But, just letting where everyone stay(ed) where they are" is an overly simplistic way to start.
Even as a settler I recognize the fact that the amount of and geographic positioning of settlements has been and is strongly influenced by a desire to "control the land" and not merely live in or settle it. It is also a way to limit growth and development of Palestinian settlements and urban areas.
We have some work cut out for ourselves to create an atmosphere of good faith to "share the land" rather than control it.
who is good in editing and would start a summery project on this topic?
as you see, when we speek about solution the topic is very complex so that relevant topics need to be separated, put in relevant questions, look for relevant answers in the forum and tag to those question. For each topic and its related question we would need then a new discussion. The whole is part of feed-back loops.
Otherwise this discussion will be held for EVER in tones of sites.
on the way to work I was thinking what would be the perfect "language" for people, as definitions are driving us to hell .. ? We are spending most of our energy to speak about same things in different way, we try to define Zionism, Democracy, Islam, .. all these names. Isn't there some thing pure, oneness like love to communicate with?
So I have imagined that people in heaven will not need to talk, as there will be no definitions. How can we make this real on earth? To talk with eyes, behaviour and intuitions?
My passion for Global Brain Application has that back-ground; to have nodes to the global intelligence, energy and harmonised consciousness matrix. Every one can learn what ever he wants to (using smart learning-machines) and participates on developing any think he loves (collaboration tools) .. to take and give in balance and harmony ..
I too am frustrated about the use of labels...On the other hand the use/misuse/manipulation of labels does help us better understand our fears and prejudices.
I have a friend on my kibbutz, a poet who is more "nationalistic" than I..but he is the one who has been working on me to understand, empathize and use the term Nakbah. He believes it should be part of ALL Israeli schooling and not just in the Arab sector (where it was recently added).
Accepting the others term will be part of accepting him.
To do so we do need the love and understanding you talk about..Seeing the other as a human being and reacting to him in this way. It is amazing how often it happens in day to day life..but not harnessed enough to make the big difference.
we need a culture without politics and propaganda for while to normalize our corrupted humanity.
Religion belongs to the harts of the people if they really have it and not on political agendas. Labels, religion and God has been totally misused to gain authority and power ..
I beg to differ.
your denounciation of politics - which seems to be shared by so many - is a central part in that very corruption of which you speak. It is misguided at least three times over:
1. Politics is the field of shared interests, values, needs, problems etc. and is therefore a most human, humane, and dignified field.
2. One central such interest / value etc - possibly the most central of them all - is that of peace, in the name of which we are all gathered here. In other words, peace is a paradigm of political interest / value etc if ever there was one. To deny this would be to deny it its most important aspect.
3. Ignoring politics means leaving it to the monopoly of exactly those people and those ideologies which have brought it to its sorry state (such as the ones you rightly mention) to begin with.
thus I end my message with a personal request, both to you and to whomever else may be reading these lines: a distate for - or a disinterest in - politics is competely legitimate, like any distaste and disinterest, and those who exhibit are perfectly within their rights. Thus I beg of you - if you are disinterested in politics, then leave politics alone, by all means, but stop denouncing it and stop calling on others to follow suit. I ask this of you as one friend of peace to another, and with all humbleness and respect.
recently I learned something called Open-Space-Technology.
Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
It is about to use the "existing space" by very on by opening some new space to get the whole system in the "room" so that "all" groups could have achieved infinitely higher levels of group cohesion and effectiveness. => 21-century politics (!?)
So I will try to correct my language using it.
I appreciate this. It is interesting to note, incidently, that all over the world - but here in Israel especially - people use the word "politics" to denote the exact opposite of politics, like in the expression "political nomination" in which "political" means sectarian or even personal...