Response to David and the members of iPeace

Last night, after a long day away from the computer, I opened my mailbox to find it bursting with interesting things - first, David's public referal, with compliments, to one of my blog posts. Second, lots of apparent comments. When I opened the post to see the comments, I discovered it had disappeared. Today I learnt it had been removed, the first blog post ever to be removed from iPeace, what an honour. I started writing a response to David privately and then ran out of room; and since the majority of what I had to say has more to do with the rest of iPeace, I might as well say it here:

...The funny thing about all this, that this is exactly what I was talking about in that post (not regarding your decision remove it, but people's reactions.) The hypocracy of it all. The hypocracy of the people who calmly compare Israel to the Nazis, but cannot stand the comparison of Hamas to them. And, to paraphrase, from all we know about Israel, they are not Nazis either (by the way - I didn't say Hamas WERE Nazis. I don't believe that. But I think there are similiarities that need to be pointed out, because if we fail to recognise warning signs, how are we ever to prevent the next holocaust? I am a granddaughter of holocaust survivors, by the way.)

The hypocracy, the hypocracy of people supposedly believing so much in peace and co existence and respect, but having a hard time accepting opinions that are strange and different from their own - such as, for example, a moderate left winged; who believes in and wants peace, but thinks that on occasion, depending on the circumstances, military action is unavoidable - though recognizing that the ultimate solution can only come from dialog and understanding. See, that's me. I'm not a bleeding heart. I'm not really into the happy go lucky kind of attitude. I believe in practicalities. It's who I am, how I raised, incidentally by a father who works with the Peres Center for Peace and runs enterpreunship programs for young Palestinians in East Jerusalem. And like him I believe in cause and consequences and taking responsibilities for your life; I believe in being realistic, and that peace will never be achieved through prayer or flowers or poems, nor by CHANGING one's views to those of the other - just UNDERSTANDING the views of the other. There is a difference. It would appear that the majority of people here, sadly and to my dissapointment, do not get that.
See, it is my belief that dialog does not mean "convincing the other that you were right". It certainly isn't what it is for. Dialog is for understanding what the OTHER thinks is right, and accepting that that opinion is legitimate. From that, one can grow and learn, and than both sides adjust to the other; and then, eventually, from that you get friendship, and understanding, and compromise and then - peace. It is a long process, it doesn't happen immediately, and people need to realize that until you get there, it is about more than repeating the word "peace" and "love" lots of times. It is, in fact, more about strategy, planning, practicalities and nuances. That is, if your aim is actually to get anywhere, namely to peace, and not just give lip service or feel good about your self because you 'believe in peace'.

Reality is not pretty. It is harsh. Saying that peace should be unconditional is a lovely idea - but it is highly disconnected from reality. In reality, for people who have been in conflict for many years, the road to peace is a lot less easy. It is paved with scars and fear and pride and the need to feel that their rights and safety are guaranteed. It is not a choice, it is psychology. They can't widely accept peace at ANY cost. So, what would be the practicality of bringing them around to make peace? forcing them into a generalized view of the term 'peace', or working with them and their needs?

Now, I didn't come here to be sweet, or get sympathy, or get people to like me. I came here because I thought this was a platform for a mature, informed, educated exchange of opinions. I once led such an exchange of opinions in my old blog, Joint Voices, that I ran with Bashir from Beirut during the Lebanon War. Please feel free to look. We each held on to our own opposing views, but discussed them logically, and ended up not with someone changing their opinion, but with a friend. We, between the both of us, achieved peace (so I actually have proof of how this does work). The main success came, I think, from the fact that we talked to the point. No pussyfooting. No censorship around the tough issues.

I thought this was a place like that too. Alas, I find, that most people here are, in fact, mainly interested in making peace only with themselves, nodding and tsking to each other and reassuring each other that they are peaceful beings. So I fear this isn't the place for me. It's, sadly, rather pointless. With the exception of a few friends I made, like David and Ruach and Mohamad Sh., most of you aren't really interested in real dialog, but rather dialog between the like minded. How unfortunate that you fail to see that the only way to peace is dialog and friendship with those you DISAGREE with.

And so, David, in response to your question, I don't think I'll be staying. While I believe in sensitivity, I disagree with being 'extra sensitive'. I don't believe in hushing my opinions just because someone else thinks otherwise. I never cursed or insulted anyone, I just had a different opinion, and that is perfectally legitimate by any liberal, democratic criteria (free speech ahm ahm).With people who don't get that, there's no point in attempting a real dialog.

David, I thank you for the opportunity to speak. I have nothing but highest respect for you and what you're trying to do with this venture here. It's been really great to make friends with you, you're an amazing person.
Also, to all those good souls who made friends with me, a great big thanks, love and respect. It's been awsome. Keep up the friendships.

As for the rest of you, here's sad part, the big reality check. What I wrote in that post really wasn't extreme at all. I represent the opinions of what is known as the 'sane middle/left wing' in Israel. These are the opinions of the majority, they are even a little more to the right. If you are unable to bring yourself to converse with me and accept me, this means you are living in a bubble, blocking out the majority of Israelis and cancelling out any hope of conversation - and these are the people who hold the power, from this side anyway, to materialize peace. No dialog with the likes of me, means no dialog at all - and without dialog, correct me if I'm wrong, no possibility for peace.

Good luck everyone.

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Comment by myron joshua on January 12, 2009 at 10:29am: Dialogue is halted when one side can no longer be open to the other's voice.
Sometimes it is because the ears are closed..prejudice closes the door to learning, to stretching oneself.
Sometimes it is because the voice is too harsh.
The voice may sound too harsh because of the weight of emotional associations attaches itself to the voice.

What i learned recently is that sometimes dialogue stops because the people in dialogue are really talking about two different things. Both sides may mean well, they may even agree on many issues and have a common vision.

For example in the case of the present situation in Gaza
1, People may agree that the suffering in Gaza is horrendous
2. People may agree that both Israel and Palestine must mutually recognizes each others rights and live in peace..
3. But if one addresses the present horrendous suffering of Gazan civilians NOW..and the other wants to get involved in the broader issues they reach a dead end.

At Ipeace this dead end can lead to a shift in tone, an escalation. But if we are careful we can retain our dear friendships. (Hi RU :-) If we are not careful it can fuel the fire of prejudice.

In the real world, where decisions are made, if we get over hate, fear and prejudice these more subtle dead ends can still be reasons why war prevails.

Comment by Faisal Alam on January 12, 2009 at 8:46am: One of my friend express me, Hamas doesn't care about civilians (Children) anymore than Israel does.
But one of them would call for ceasefire by now, but BIG NO still, pride and personal gain is more important for Hamas and Israel government. What UN can do.

Comment by Charles Hill on January 12, 2009 at 8:25am: I'm unhappy that I will never be able to read this blog. I would suggest that this never happen again without consulting all members first. The resulting comments should make interesting reading.

Comment by Hannah Sanderson on January 12, 2009 at 6:49am: Lilu,

I agree with what you wrote and am amazed and inspired by your courage.

I joined this website just a few days ago to try and find a respite and more importantly, a counterbalancing force, away from all the negativity that is being spewed on other news media and social networking sites. I thought I would find it here, but after spending some time on iPeace it seems that I may be wrong. The same back and forth, tit-for-tat, constant pushing of one's own narrow and unyielding POV has taken over. Where are the people who want to make a real connection with someone on the other side of his/her perspective? Where are the open-minded? Some of the active people on this website are just as negative and agenda-toting as any others on those 'non peaceful' ones.

So thanks for speaking bravely about it.

Comment by Clicia Pavan on January 12, 2009 at 6:15am: Estoy en favor de la paz, la guerra Sólo pagan inocentes
Yo trabajo con niños y saber que
El mundo es olvidar a los niños
Recibo diariamente 400fax
Donde el ver y leer
El mundo necesita llegar a un acuerdo antes de que sea demasiado tarde
Los niños son el futuro del planeta
Defender a Israel, sino también defender los niños
Lilu no deja
Usted sabe la emoción se hace cargo de las personas
Sin embargo, sabemos que la realidad es otra
Piensa, mi trabajo y empezó a
mostrar al mundo que su cara tan hermosa y verdadera
---------------------
I am for peace, war
Only innocent pay
I work with children and know that
The world is forgetting the children
I receive daily 400fax
The where I see and read
The world needs to agree before it is too late
Children are the future of the planet
Defend Israel, but also advocate children
Lilu is not leaving
You know the emotion takes care of people
But we know that the reality is another
Think, my job and started
show the world that their side so beautiful and true

Comment by ken on January 12, 2009 at 5:17am: BUY GAZA BUY GAZA BUYGAZA

Comment by Chenae on January 12, 2009 at 4:16am: Lilu,
I did read your blog post and did post a reply. I found it much as you describe, I did not agree with everything you said,but as David had suggested I intended to come back and read again very carefully. When I did so Your blog and the posts had disappeared. I did post later that day to a thread asking about this removal and asked for calm.I did not see all the posts but the one previous time I have seen a post by a person who David banned,it was far beyond any freedom of speech issue, it was a obscene genocidal attack. This site is growing very rapidly and does need some screening from those who would come here only to spread hate and destroy. I have seen that on other sites.
You seem a deeply committed and informed soul. I would like very much for you to stay..
To come to the Table of Peace doe snot mean to sit with those with whom we agree. It often means for us to sit with those who we may percieve as enemy and transform that opposition.
Alhtough I live in the US far removed from the conflict, I have tried to educate myself for many years. I do have strong opinions about the actions now and in the past of the State of Israel. But in my reaching to others here and outside the Mid East. I am very concerned that Israels actions are now leading to a new and very large wave of Anti Semitism ,I do not speak right now about the actions themselves or proportion or justification.I speak about perception . The actions most International groups seem to be taking are aimed at Israel. That maybe because there is little in the Non -Islamic World we can do to address Hamas. And although I have supported such actions , in calls to the UN, there is developing an undertone I find very chilling. Confusing the Actor with the action as the Dalai Lama would say. But labels such as Terrorists are are also manipulative, the same actions are seen by some as freedom fighters and brave defenders..
Some of my ancestors were of the American Indian Nations. There are absolute facts of proportion in that history. And more recent than most know. To not forget, to know history and still forgive in this time is possible. If we can forgive for the Dead I do not know,
But in this moment and in this complex history I keep insisting that it is the children and innocents of Now we must put first.
That is where as human i think we can agree.
I would love to talk more with you. More importantly I want to listen to you, and would ask you and others to please stay. We must break through to understanding here if we are to carry it to other places.
Bless
Chenae

Comment by peter adler on January 12, 2009 at 2:18am: Since the time human beings are in conflict - for 1000ends of years - there is always the same kind of actions and reactions. You hurt me so I hurt you - you hurt me I hurt you - and so on and on. Each of the conflicting parties is blaming the others to have started the conflict and therefore have to stop first.
It remembers me of my childhood when I had fights with my friends. We used to say it's your fault - no it's yours - but you started - no you started, therefore you have to make peace first. So we kept on arguing. The parents then said something like: "the wiser gives in - the donkey stands still."
In the whole world are childish people having this childish fights but they have it with lethal weapons. And after all this time they still believe that shooting back will some day resolve the problem. The pattern is always the same. It's like ping pong. Revenge, punishment, revenge, punishment. And even if this pattern did not resolve any problem the human race still uses ist stupidly as if it would change something and bring about peace, stupid like only humans can be. That's reality.
If a country does not behave "like it should" it is punished by the more powerful one for example with food embargos (like punishing children). All is done with supression, punishment and with violence and believed to change something to the good. Isn't that an illusion? And even if this suppression leads just to more violent reactions, we humans still use the same stupid patterns to solve problems. I mean how can we be so stupid to proceed with useless destructive actions that lead to exact the oposite than what we really want?
Why can we not do the oposite of what we have always been doing. All painful actions against others come from pain. So if we want to resolve the pain we should not perform painful actions against each others. We need to do painresolving actions, help the one we see as enemy. Only in this manner we can change from war to peace. We need to do what we haven't done before. Befriend the enemy. This might bring up a lot of fear because we go on new unknown terrrain.

Comment by Helen Bascom on January 12, 2009 at 1:01am: @David

". . . .because I believe that when this war is over, we will and should have a future as a community committed to peace."

This suggests to me no present dialog is possible. I hope that is not the case.

Comment by Helen Bascom on January 12, 2009 at 12:58am: There must be something good here because I've met many good people. I will be watching and reading.