Palestine-Israel Peace Forum

Comment

Comment by Mahmood Sairally on March 23, 2009 at 8:17pm

What about the Palestinians of Christain faith retrieved of their belongings from Palestine, today Israel e.g. Jaffa, Hebron, etc. I agree with Yifat that a solution should be found for all those refugees whatever their faith.

The quarrel could only be solved by talking to to each ozher, i.e. dialogue between the parties towards a piece solutionbut not reviving the olld and petty discusions.

Comment by Marianne de Zwart on March 23, 2009 at 7:06pm

I do not mix the events in the Palestinian regio with the WW II.
I want to get things clear how they are developped in history.
The Jews were expelled from Andalus.centuries ago. In 1948 was the war to create Israël. The reason to create Israël was the experience from WW II. But that doesn't put away the fact, that the land, that is now called Israël, has been taken by war in 1948 to settle Israël.
Quarrel is the base of Israël. How to stop with this quarrel ?
Hoiw can everyone involved being done right ?

Comment by Mahmood Sairally on March 23, 2009 at 2:27pm

It is not by pouring oil on fire that we would solve anything. Nobody threw the Paletinians of Jewish faith out of their home, do not mix what happened in the Second World War in Europe with the war in 1948 in Palestine. As I wrote before stop this naive argument. Nobody is denying the existence of Israel but let everyone live in Peace and Harmony there. Do not mix things. It is really a "Kindergarten" discussion. Be serious and study the history books.
With Love and Peace.

Comment by Marianne de Zwart on March 23, 2009 at 1:59pm

Aren't there other people leaving their land to seek for fortune elsewhere and still keep their claim on their original country ?
Why have the Jews been thrown out of their land ?
You speak of arguing like children in a kindergarten.
What do you think of China and Tibet ? Isn't thqat a serious and lifethreatening fight for the Tibetanian people ? The Dalai Lama is now travelling around the wolrd to speak with everyone on earth to get Tibet free from the Chinese occupation. The Tibetanian people want their home back. The same is the matter with the Jewish peop;le. They need their home. It wasd taken away from them centuries ago. WW II showed the world the need for an own country for the Jews. The United Nations agree with the creation of Israël.
Then we can say : Why fighting about a piece of land, that we gave back to people, who had lost their home and needs one ?
Okay, stop fighting and leave the Israëli's in peace living in Israël. If they are left in quietness, all the fighting with the Palestinians is over.
The UN are supporting the existence of Israël.
Lets stop attacking Israël.

.

Comment by Mahmood Sairally on March 23, 2009 at 12:23pm

How someone could be so naive? When God created our Planet everybody lived somewhere and noone could claim this portion of land. How come that those who left their country to seek fortune elsewhere could have the same rights today or later? When those of Jewish faith were thrown away from Andalus who extended their hands and gave them asylum?
We should stop arguing as children in "kindergarten", by so doing we will never find the Light to Peace, Harmony and Love. Stop it and seek the Truth in Peace.

Comment by Grete Soleng on March 23, 2009 at 9:36am

Before that time the Palestinian also lived there,so I can`t see why they shouldn`t be allowed to live there now.

Comment by Marianne de Zwart on March 23, 2009 at 2:24am

It is a fight for land. Whose land is it ? Who were there first ? When Israël was formed, the Palestinians lived there. But before that time the Jews lived there. They were expelled. After the WW II they got support and could start anew with Israël.
Whose land is it ?

In wartime everyone does ugly things, the Jews, now Israëli's, and the Palestinians. Very sad. But the quarrel about the land is a quarrel about their lifes, of both of them.

Comment by Grete Soleng on March 22, 2009 at 11:52pm

Why should the Palestinian go to Jordan???? Their home is just where they are living.Israel is the occupant so to get peace they of cource have to give back what they stole.That`s what all normal people ars doing...
I know that the jews had a terrible story during the WW2,but these days they are acting in exactly the same way as the German did to them-and that`s what I don`t understand!!!!Have they already forgotten.............

Comment by Marianne de Zwart on March 22, 2009 at 7:45pm

Centuries ago the Jewish people were expelled from their regio, Jerusalem and surrouindings. They were spread all over the world. They went to Russia, Germany, Spain and the USA especially. Then came WW II with Hitler and his nazi-regime. 6 million Jews ended their lifes in Hitler's concentrationcamps because of the hatred of Hitler against Jews, and millions of soldiers died to recapture freedom for mankind.
It became very clear how important it is to have a country to go to without being a stranger, having one's own country. So the Brittish gouvernment decided to give the Jews their own country, so they could be safe somewhere on earth, where there is no anti-semitism.
We know about the Apartheid in South-Africa how it damaged people, not only black people, also white people. To be honest I am damaged too scared to be aquqinted to someone I love, because I was verbally attacked by an American girl, we were four or five years old, when I walked on the street with a black girl of my age, who was very sweet. The black girl was acused of being black. It was heartbreaking. I lost a dear friend and kept a fear to be related to a beloved one because of getting attacked it isn't right to be ralated to that person. It determined my whole life..
During WW II the Jews had to walk with a yellow star, so they were to be recognized as Jew and forbidden a lot of things as like the black people during the Apartheid in South-Africa. For the Jews it went even worse being gathered in concentrationcamps and being killed.
The wartrauma's from that time are still alive nowadays in the people in The Netherlands.
Not only the Jews were damaged, also the people, who were aquainted to them. related to them. Jews, who survived and came back, were very alone, nowhere to go without any support.
Then they got Israël, the land they came from centuries ago. They got their own land back Other people in that regio had to make place for the new people, for the Jews, These are the Palestinians. They speak of Palestina being their country. In their eyes their country is occupied by the Jews and they want it back. That means, that they want Israël to be as not existing anymore.
Both want a place to live safely The Palestinians could go to Jordanië and other countries. Jewish people have only Israël. because of the anti-semitisme.
Both have their own religion, with their own holy scriptures, and their own culture based on their religion.
Now the solution is sought by splitting up the country. Gaza and the West-Jordan valley for the Palestinians and Israël for the Jews. But from the Gaza the Palestinians were shooting on Israël, not very peaceful behaviour. And in Israël the Palestinian individuals are blowing themselves up killing a lot of other people with this action.
What is still the purpose of this violence of the Palestinians against the Jews? To get their country back, the occupied country. Israël has to vanish.
How can one deal with each other, if one of the two wants the disappaerance of the other ? Israël is not accepted as a country in the Arabic world.
So the Jews would have no country at all in the regio, where they come from, where they originated from.
For the Jews it is a fight of to be or not to be, while for the Palestinians it is a fight to have their whole country back or to share it with the Jews.
There is no other country in the world then Israël , where the Torah is the base of the society, while the Qoran is the base of the society in many countries in the world. Is that an argument to say the Qoran is the winning part in this matter or should we say we should give a piece of land in some part of the world to the people of the Torah to create their own society? And shouldn't it be the best to have that piece of land there where they have their origins ?
Israël is created based on humanity, The Palestinians had to give that piece of land without compensation for it. Or can one say, that the Palestinians had taken away land from the Jews centuries ago and now the Jews are taking their rights back by having their piece of land in Israël ?
The question is who is the boss in that regio ? Whose culture, whose religion, whose kind of reigning a country with its population is determining the lifes of the people living there ?
It is a conflict of cultures which is expanding to other countries like it is in The Netherlands.for instance, where the christian religion with the Bible is the base of the Dutch society and the islamitic religion with the Qoran is infiltrating.with different habits and values. We have to share our country with the new people; they have helped the Dutch people economicily to make The Netherlands to be a rich country. They develop themselves and are taking functions in the gouvernment. But the Dutch people are still the boss in the Netherlands. It is a peaceful way the new people have come to The Netherlands.
The Jews are put back in their regio, in Israël, by the Britten. a oppressing action at costs of the Palestinians.
How has the Islam with the Qoran spread its wings ? By war conquering countries in North-Africa and in Spain in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries.
Not peaceful either.
How is peace possible, when one wants land to live in and doesn't have it and when there is no agreement of co-existence ?
In Europe have been so many wars between the countries because of conquering each others land. The EU, les Ëtats Unies, is developped as a proitection to these kind of wars after WW II. A lot of East-Europian countries want to join the EU to be protected against Russia and communism and to get welfare in their countries. Every country has his own regime and participate as an equal state/person in the EU.
The solution for the Palestinian and Jewish people could be coöperation having each their own piece of land with their own regime. But then the Palestinians have to acknowledge the existence and the right to be of Israël,. And that they don't. So one stays fighting for the same piece of land, called Israël, land of Milk and Honey.
Who has the answer for this fight?
Marianne.

Comment by Mahmood Sairally on March 22, 2009 at 1:37pm

Dear Irit,

Thank you for sharing this beautiful, wellsaid and heart reaching poem. I am so happy that I have read it. It brings back the words of my late grandfather who was deeply grieved about the 1948 war between the Jews and the Arabs. He could not understand why?
Could you, please, send me this poem through my email address so that my children, my grand children, my friends and I will keep a copy in my archive to remind those who will read it that the best cure for hatredness is Peace and Love each other. My email address is : sairally@cityplannersarchitects.de.

Have a nice day. Shalom and kindest regards.

Mahmood

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